How Many Steps Do You Really Need for Health and Weight Loss with Amanda Paluch

James Hill:
Welcome to Weight Loss And, where we delve into the world of weight loss. I'm Jim Hill.

Holly Wyatt:
And I'm Holly Wyatt. We're both dedicated to helping you lose weight, keep it off, and live your best life while you're doing it.

James Hill:
Indeed, we now realize successful weight loss combines the science and art of medicine, knowing what to do and why you will do it.

Holly Wyatt:
Yes, the “And” allows us to talk about all the other stuff that makes your journey so much bigger, better, and exciting.

James Hill:
Ready for the “And” factor?

Holly Wyatt:
Let's dive in.

James Hill:
Here we go.

Holly Wyatt:
I think there are very few numbers in health that have become as culturally powerful as 10,000. People know their cholesterol number. They know their blood pressure, hopefully. And they know whether they hit 10,000 steps. Miss the number and people feel like they failed. Hit that number and they feel like they have succeeded.

James Hill:
Holly, what's fascinating is that most people assume that this 10,000-step number came from decades of scientific research. It sounds so precise, so official, so evidence-based. But guess what? That's not really where the number came from.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. And that's what makes today's conversation, I think, so interesting and so exciting. Because what if we've been asking the wrong question all along? What if the real question isn't, you know, did I get 10,000 steps or is 10,000 steps the number? What if the real question is, how many steps do I need to improve my health?

James Hill:
Ah, Holly, what a great question. We just happen to have someone who can address that.

Holly Wyatt:
Yes, we do.

James Hill:
We do. So today's guest is Dr. Amanda Paluch, who's Associate Professor of Kinesiology at the University of Massachusetts Amherst. Amanda is one of the leading researchers studying the relationship between physical activity, step counts, and long-term health. She leads the Steps for Health Collaborative, an international research consortium that's pooled data from more than 125,000 adults across multiple continents to better understand how daily movement influences mortality, cardiovascular disease, and healthy aging. Amanda's work has helped shape how researchers, clinicians, and the public think about step counts. And she's provided some of the strongest evidence we have on how much movement is needed to really improve health.

Holly Wyatt:
Oh, Jim, this is going to be a great conversation because I have so many questions.

James Hill:
You know I love steps.

Holly Wyatt:
Yes, I'm not going to be able to make you be quiet so I get my questions.

James Hill:
No, this is great.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. And what I also appreciate about Amanda's work is she studies something almost everybody can relate to. Most people aren't trying to become elite athletes. They're simply trying to figure out whether movement, what do they need to do every single day? Are they doing enough? What makes a difference? And Amanda's research really helps answer that question with real data instead of assumptions or maybe marketing messages.

James Hill:
Wow, Amanda, the bar is high. So welcome to Weight Loss And.

Amanda Paluch:
The bar sure is high. Thanks so much for having me.

Holly Wyatt:
So Amanda, before we get into the science and before we can't shut Jim up, before he starts with all his questions, I want the listeners to understand how you got here. You've devoted so much of your career to studying something most people do every day. Step, walk, and we do it without even thinking about it. So what drew you towards step counts and walking as a focus of your research?

Amanda Paluch:
Yeah, so I started with a deep interest in this prevention angle and so got really interested in physical activity. And I took an exercise physiology class in undergrad at Ohio State. And up comes this slide of evidence by Steve Blair, who showed how fitness is important regardless of other risk factors.

Amanda Paluch:
If you were fit, even if you had elevated blood pressure or higher weight or were a smoker, that could be helpful in terms of your longevity and living longer. And this blew my mind. And so I was like, physical activity and how do we actually promote physical activity at a population scale? And so I actually went and worked with Steve Blair at South Carolina. And this was early smartphone days and he held up a smartphone, he's like this is going to change how we think about physical activity because we can measure it now on a device. One of the major ways that we can measure physical activity now is through this metric of daily steps. Almost everybody now carries their cell phone most places and we have our steps available there. And so thinking about promoting physical activity at a population scale, steps really resonated with me in terms of using that to promote physical activity and thinking about how many steps should we actually be promoting.

James Hill:
Amanda, that's terrific. You had the wonderful opportunity to work with the late Dr. Steve Blair, who was a dear friend and colleague. Steve and I traveled the world together and so many stories about Steve. But he was clearly a pioneer in this area. And I think you were very lucky to get some time with him.

Amanda Paluch:
Yes.

James Hill:
Tell us, where did this 10,000-step goal come from?

Amanda Paluch:
Yeah, it's such an interesting story. So 10,000 Steps started over half a century ago. In the mid-1960s, a Japan company came out with a pedometer that roughly translated to 10,000 Step Meter. And like you mentioned in the introduction, it's such a nice, clean number. It's really great. People can remember it.

James Hill:
Yeah.

Amanda Paluch:
And so it stuck. And it was not based on scientific evidence.

Holly Wyatt:
Wow. I was thinking I would think there would be some data behind it. We've promoted that so heavily. And so many people do know that number. So that's a great, they did some great marketing there.

Amanda Paluch:
Absolutely. It's a great marketing and some people can achieve it. So 10,000 steps is achievable for some, but was it evidence-based based on health outcomes? And is it the best number to promote at a full population?

James Hill:
Well, that's where your work comes in, because you've looked at the evidence sort of saying, “Well, 10,000 steps, it's a nice round number. There's no data for it.” Tell us how you approach the idea of deciding what the data actually shows in terms of steps in health.

Amanda Paluch:
Yeah. So this is where we started the Steps for Health Collaborative. So there's various epidemiological cohort studies where these various cohorts have actually collected device-measured steps. So they'll provide a device to the participants in the study, and then they're following these individuals for multiple years, sometimes several decades. And so we have the number of steps they've taken and then followed them for their risk of developing cardiovascular disease, how long do they live. And so what we did is we invited as many studies as we could possibly find around the world that had daily steps measured and then also followed them long term for these various health outcomes like heart disease and your risk of dying. And so we got together a handful of studies. We've now up to nearly 20 cohorts that are involved in this research and over 50 scientists from around the world. And they all have contributed such essential data to help answer this question. How many steps are associated with longevity and preventing chronic disease?

James Hill:
Well, I love this approach, Holly. This is the way you do science. And I also love the fact that Amanda, rather than saying, “I'm going to do everything.” She actually went out and worked with everybody else saying, “Help us contribute.”

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. And so how powerful to have, I mean, we went from not very much data at all to really having this huge, it seems, data set that's real world. That's kind of what I like about it. It's not just one individual cohort. It's looking at it in many, many different ways. So about how many people or subjects are in this big data set that you have access to?

Amanda Paluch:
So right now we have over 125,000 participants in this data set ranging from kind of young adulthood all the way into older adulthood.

James Hill:
All right. So drum roll here, Amanda. We've set it up. You have really brought science to this question. Tell us what you learned.

Amanda Paluch:
So we found that you do not need 10,000 steps to get the majority of the health benefit. We see this great dose response association, and it tells us that anything is better than nothing. So going from a little bit more, we see benefit and we actually start to see a plateau. And this plateau, meaning that you don't get much benefit going beyond that range, actually deferred whether you're an older adult or a younger adult. So what we showed was there was this progressively lower risk of premature mortality for all adults if you do more steps per day until it started to level. So at 6,000 to 8,000 steps for an older adult of 60 years and older, and for a younger adult less than 60 years, the plateauing happened at 8,000 to 10,000 steps per day.

Holly Wyatt:
Okay.

James Hill:
So Holly, I'm in that second group, the younger group, of course.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. You can get the 10,000.

James Hill:
Wow. That's really exciting, Amanda. And it gives people, I think, more realistic goals. You know, when we were working in this area in the early 90s, people would measure their steps and it would be like 2,000 and they would say, “Okay, I'm going to get 10,000.” And that was just too big a jump to do. And people would do it. They might get up to four or five and they would feel like a failure. I think what you've done is to give people a realistic way to approach goals they can actually do.

Holly Wyatt:
And I think also she said the first part, even a little bit of increase, even if you don't get to the 6,000 to 8,000 or the 8,000 to 10,000, depending on the age, is that it sounds like it's shown benefit. So tell us a little bit, what kind of cardiovascular disease benefit did you see?

Amanda Paluch:
Yeah, so for cardiovascular disease, we actually saw the strongest associations for the older adult population. But at that same range, if you get to 6,000 to 8,000, you're getting the majority of the benefit. And it's incremental, like we talked about, going from 2,000 to 3,000, 3,000 to 4,000. By the time you get to 6,000 steps, those individuals were at a 40% to 50% lower risk of developing cardiovascular disease compared to somebody who was getting, say, 2,000 to 3,000 steps. So we see this incremental improvement in health with even these smaller doses of steps, particularly for an older adult. Now, for a younger adult, we don't see as strong associations for these long-term health outcomes of cardiovascular disease. And the reason we didn't see that, we think, is because cardiovascular disease is a disease of aging. So it's not going to present itself typically in a younger adult population. But what we do see is that it benefits things like the risk factors that lead to cardiovascular disease. So benefiting hypertension, diabetes, weight, those types of aspects that also matter. And they're going to prevent that long-term chronic condition.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, what I love about this is the data. I mean, now there is strong data behind this. And we can feel really good about that. Why do you think there was a difference between, you know, do you have any hypothesis behind why 6,000 to 8,000 for older and 8,000 to 10,000 for the younger group?

Amanda Paluch:
Yeah, we've given this a lot of thought, and it's such an interesting concept and really surprising that we found this difference by age. And one of the things that we think could be contributing is the cost of walking or doing activity. So thinking about the relative effort to do walking compared for an older versus a younger adult. So say a 30-year-old woman is going on a walk with a 70-year-old woman, and they're walking together at the same pace, but likely that effort is going to be harder or more rigorous for that older adult woman. And so the fact that it's a higher physiological stimulus, this could be why we see that the benefits tend to accrue at smaller volumes of steps for an older adult compared to a younger adult.

James Hill:
Gosh, Holly, I have so many questions. So Amanda, over the years and decades, I've done lots of interviews around largely weight management. People always ask what I think is a really silly question to say, what's one thing people can do? The real answer is quit asking what one thing is. But when pressed, I would say if you really had to tell people to start something, it would be start walking. And I know that Steve Blair has always said that you really get a lot of bang for your buck when you go from doing nothing to doing a little bit. Did you find that at all in your research?

Amanda Paluch:
Absolutely. So what was really kind of consistent with what we've seen with any other way that we've measured physical activity in epidemiology is this early part of this dose response curve that we use. So it's this steep, what we call a steep early slope. So if you go from having very low activity and you do a little bit more, your risk reduction, that's where you see the biggest bang for your buck. So going from 2,000 to 3,000 steps, 3,000 to 4,000 steps, that's where we saw the greatest risk reductions in things like all-cause mortality and cardiovascular disease.

James Hill:
Wow. That, Holly, I think is a real message of hope. And it strikes me that we're thinking of this the wrong way. The idea is it's the sedentary state that's the abnormal state where you aren't moving your body at all. And just getting away from that sedentary state where you move a little bit has such a huge impact.

Holly Wyatt:
And I think we need to get that message out there because I know when I'm talking to patients and clients, if they don't hit this number, and before maybe it was 10,000 or whatever number, they feel like they haven't succeeded. And so that switch of yes, if you have gotten out there and moved 2,000 steps, especially if that's new for you, huge success. And you should feel really, really good about that. You've done something that we have data shows is impactful.

James Hill:
So one of the other things I want to ask you about, Amanda, did you look at steps and how it relates to weight or weight loss?

Amanda Paluch:
So we have not done that in our studies. There have been a few recent studies that have come out that have kind of looked at your risk of developing obesity if you weren't obese and followed for a few years. And they are seeing that individuals who are getting around this, say, 8,000-step range, for a young to middle-aged adult, that's typically where a lot of this research has been, has been shown to be associated with kind of preventing that weight gain over years of time. So it does seem to have some association, but there's definitely less on the specific number of steps.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. I want to talk about pace because people ask me this all the time. Does it matter how fast you walk? I'm a slow walker. I'm a fast walker. I usually talk about, are you brisk walking? But does that matter in these research results?

Amanda Paluch:
What we've seen in our findings is that once you account for the total number of steps you're getting, it seems that the total volume matters than the pace at which you walk them. So this is really challenging in some of these analyses because, of course, people who walk faster tend to get more steps. So there's this like really tight link between the two. But what we're seeing is, in general, most studies, including ours, are showing that it's the total volume that matters for these long-term outcomes like longevity or preventing premature death. Now, it could vary depending on some other outcomes that we hope to look into, in future studies, right? Some of these more immediate outcomes. Does walking pace matter? But what we're seeing for longevity, it seems to be “get your steps in anyway, no matter the pace.”

Holly Wyatt:
So almost pace may help you get steps in in less time if you're time crunched to get your goal or to get to that but it not necessarily. I always say I think volume out trumps everything else and that's true. The reason I ask is because when you kind of talked about the two different step levels and you said a 30-year-old woman and a 70-year-old woman, it's different intensity really when they're walking. And so that maybe played a role in the numbers but then maybe didn't come out as much when we just look at walking speed.

Amanda Paluch:
Yeah. Exactly so it's It does seem to, when we do these analyses, we've seen that if you just look at walking speed, it seems to have an association. But once we take into account that total volume, that association becomes attenuated or less strong. So I like to say that if you can walk faster, consider that icing on the cake, right? But it's just getting in your total steps is the great starting point. Walking faster, icing on the cake.

James Hill:
So one reason that I think steps are so popular, they're incredibly easy to understand. And should we be looking at incorporating these kinds of things into our physical activity guidelines? I mean, 150 minutes. Yeah, you can measure minutes, but you got to pay attention. The beauty of step counting, you have devices that do it. You don't have to pay attention. What are your thoughts there, Amanda?

Amanda Paluch:
I think, I mean, that was one of our major motivations for getting this research going and getting it done quickly because there is so many individuals out there that are using devices and particularly one of the top metrics that individuals report, using and utilizing in their daily lives is daily steps. And the fact that we don't have a guideline or a recommendation around this really leaves it up to the individual or the clinician without some just general guidelines. So we do think that this is an important part of future physical activity guidelines in hopes that it gets added soon, just because of those reasons, the simplicity and everyone's using it.

Holly Wyatt:
Is there a step target that corresponds to that 150 minutes of activity per week that we also hear out there and guidelines frequently?

Amanda Paluch:
So what's really interesting is it reflects similar to what we're seeing in these actual dose response health associations where we see the plateau. So there's been some like hypothetical models and papers that have gone out about how many steps would it be if you were getting that 150 minutes. So if we take a middle-aged adult, generally we see that a middle-aged adult who's not doing much more than their daily living is going to get about 5,000 steps. And if they do 22 minutes of walking, say brisk walking, that's going to be about 2,000 to 3,000 more daily steps. So what we're seeing is it's somewhere around that 7,000 to 8,000 range actually kind of matches a recommendation. So it beautifully matches up. And it was not intentional that we also see that this dose response in the data shows as well.

James Hill:
So, Amanda, maybe push you out of your comfort zone a little bit, which we like to do here on Weight Loss And, but in our world, the big thing right now are the new GLP-1 medications that produce weight loss and you don't have to move to get weight loss, et cetera. What's the role you think for step counting and people on GLP-1 medications?

Amanda Paluch:
I hope that people who are taking GLP-1s will think about daily steps as a simple way to maintain or increase their activity to help with that muscle and bone health in addition to their weight loss. And so I think that steps could be a really nice tool to try to increase your steps and then maintain those steps. And I think it will lead to better outcomes for individuals who are using GLP-1s.

James Hill:
As someone who really has always valued the benefit of physical activity, I think we need for people to understand who are on the GLP-1 medications that physical activity does so much more than burn calories. It has mental health effects. It has metabolic effects. And one of the things I worry about is with the meds, you don't have to do this to lose weight. And I think the medications are making us think differently about both nutrition and physical activity. And we need to give people on these meds a reason to be more active that's over and above weight loss.

Amanda Paluch:
Absolutely. So I totally agree with you, Jim, that it is physical activity. It is a pleiotropic benefits that it's working on every aspect of the body. And so beyond weight loss, it is going to help you with these long-term health benefits that I think are absolutely essential.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. And I love that you kind of talked about preventing weight gain or preventing weight regain, where a lot of the research around that physical activity sits. Weight loss is one thing, but then it's about what are you going to do long term and many, many reasons to consider getting that physical activity in.

Holly Wyatt:
But what do we do with people, and I have people all the time who have maybe older adults that have mobility limitations and getting to that number, even getting 2,000 steps in is hard just because knees, hips, you know, all of the above. But what kind of message do you do? Anything in the data that would help us with that?

Amanda Paluch:
Yeah, myself as well as others have been starting to look at kind of individuals who are older adults on the frailty spectrum. So when we think about frailty, that's a lot of the mobility. They're at higher risk of falls. It can become more challenging to move around. There's more exhaustion as you're aging, right? And what we see is it's, again, not an all or nothing situation. And even just a little bit more can help. So even if you're at very, very low volumes, finding opportunities to just move a little bit more throughout where you're living. That's the great thing of steps, like finding it. It doesn't have to be going to the gym. It can be right where you are getting up, moving a little bit more. And I hear often working with older adults like this fear of falling. And what we see is walking actually is helpful. So if you can walk, the more you walk, the better you are in terms of reducing your risk of falls because we need to maintain that muscle mass. And so by maintaining that muscle mass, getting up and moving around, that's going to be the best way that you can prevent falls.

James Hill:
I love that. Again, I'm a big fan in steps, but trying to look at, are there potential downsides? Could step counting become sort of a source of anxiety or perfectionism? Have you seen any of that?

Amanda Paluch:
Well, I hope that some of this research that we're finding is going to take us away from that. Just the fact that you don't need to get that 10,000 to see the majority of the benefit. And once you get beyond 10,000, it's not like you're at a higher risk. There's just not much more additional benefit. So if you are there, that's great. If it makes you happy, it's part of your lifestyle, that's wonderful. But yeah, I mean, it could become an obsessive behavior. And I hope that this research showing that you don't need to have excessive amounts of steps to get a lot of these health benefits will help.

James Hill:
See, I think that's the key. Back when we were doing a lot of work with pedometer step counters, we found that it was kind of an addiction, but a good addiction. I remember one person told me, “I keep my step counter beside my bed. When I go to the bathroom, I can count my steps.” And it wasn't in a negative way. It was like, I am so into this. And I think that's the key. I think giving people too big a goal can create that anxiety and sense of failure. But if you give people reasonable goals like you've done, I don't think you're going to see very much of that.

Holly Wyatt:
So that leads me to a question I have. Jim, you've been talking about step counters for even before we had the phone. So I mean, that takes you way back. Jim really liked the little step counters that were just the little step counters you could put in your, on your waist and all of that. I remember we had some branded ones, I think.

James Hill:
Oh, yeah, we did. We did.

Holly Wyatt:
So I always say, though, is just wearing a step counter, does that cause you to be more active? So it's one thing. The step counter gives you awareness. Here's how much I move. And that's great. I always say we got to start with awareness. But does just knowing how much you move, do we have any data to say that actually makes you move more? Or do you need to specifically work on that and make sure you have a game plan for moving more?

Amanda Paluch:
What the research tends to show is that if you give someone a device, they might increase for a little bit, but you do need additional support. And also we see that if you give someone a device and you don't give them any other support, they're going to stop using it probably in about two to three months. So there is definitely more that goes into it. So it is, whether it's through a health coach or finding that social support in various ways, right? Finding what works for that individual and helping them obtain those habits that are going to maintain over time is really what is going to help. So we know that tracking is really great for health behavior change. So that's why steps and using a device is great, but it is just one piece of the of the puzzle.

James Hill:
Yeah, I love that. I think you're you're so right on there. Holly, you want to do some listener questions?

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, because we have some good ones. We have quite a few.

James Hill:
Oh, we always have good ones.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, yeah. So here's one from a person. I hit 10,000 steps most days. Am I wasting my time with extra steps that go above that level?

Amanda Paluch:
No, you are not wasting your time. And if it works for you, keep it up. So what we see is you're not at a higher risk if you're doing levels above 10,000. It's just diminishing returns once you get there. And these are for these long-term health outcomes, so preventing these chronic diseases. But there could be more immediate benefits. If it makes you happy, if it gives you the energy to have a productive day, by all means, keep it up and you're doing great things for your health.

James Hill:
All right, here's one. Do treadmill steps count the same as outdoor steps?

Amanda Paluch:
Of course, any step counts. So whatever works for you is what is best for you.

James Hill:
Fantastic.

Holly Wyatt:
I love that. Does it matter when I get my steps? And I'm going to expand that question in terms of timing, like during the day, morning, evening, whatever, but also meals. Because I get that question, does it matter if I walk before meals, after meals? So timing and the steps.

Amanda Paluch:
From the literature that we've seen so far, it does not seem to matter. Particularly, I tend to focus on your long-term health outcomes and longevity, preventing chronic disease. It seems to not matter whether you accumulate it depending on morning, afternoon, evening, you spread it throughout the day. It does not matter for these long-term benefits that we particularly look at.

Holly Wyatt:
Right. But I think what you said about the question before this, there might be other reasons that, for instance, taking a walk after dinner, might help you with. But when we're looking at the cardiovascular, you didn't see the benefit specifically with that. Love it.

Amanda Paluch:
Exactly. Yeah. So there could be other outcomes that we could see perhaps particularly, you know, taking a nice evening walk after dinner could have some additional benefits. But from what we've looked at particularly, we haven't seen much. It was just total volume, get it however you want.

James Hill:
Does the cardiovascular benefit apply to people who already have heart disease?

Amanda Paluch:
It sure does. So what is also interesting is the associations are sometimes stronger in individuals who have cardiovascular disease, and we start to see these plateauing at even lower levels. So we see that there's stronger associations for somebody who say has hypertension or somebody who has cardiovascular disease going from 2,000 to 3,000, 3,000 to 4,000, right? So even if you're at those low volumes, you are going to do great things for your health and longevity if you can do a little bit more.

Holly Wyatt:
So it sounds like it's never too late. This isn't just prevention.

James Hill:
Love it.

James Hill:
Never too late.

Amanda Paluch:
It is never too late.

Holly Wyatt:
I like it. Never too little and never too late.

Amanda Paluch:
Oh, love it.

Holly Wyatt:
I think that's a marketing. I think I've come up with something brilliant, Jim.

James Hill:
You're a marketer, Holly. I knew it all along.

Holly Wyatt:
Never too little, never too late. Here's one more. I'm trying to lose weight. A lot of people who are listening are trying to lose weight. Do steps meaningfully impact weight loss? Are they mostly a cardiovascular tool?

Amanda Paluch:
Steps on its own, I would say, is not going to be the one fit solution for weight loss. However, it is an incredibly important component of it. So we do see that walking is helpful for weight loss if it's done with other lifestyle changes. And going back to maintaining muscle mass and helping bone health and all of these other cardiovascular factors, it is absolutely essential and an important part of it.

James Hill:
You know, when we were doing work back with America On The Move and the small changes, we made it clear it was about weight gain prevention. You need a lot of physical activity to lose and maintain weight, but to prevent it, a few small changes, including a little bit of walking, can be important there. So it's different between prevention and, I think, weight loss and weight-loss maintenance.

Amanda Paluch:
Yeah, I think that piece is an important distinction. The distinction between weight loss, but then helping with the weight maintenance piece.

James Hill:
Yes.

Amanda Paluch:
Getting in your steps can be an essential part of it. Yeah.

James Hill:
I have one more, Holly. So in counting my steps, should I use a simple pedometer or should I get one of the fitness trackers or other kinds of wearable devices?

Amanda Paluch:
The pedometers work just as well as the fancy wearable devices. So we've been actually digging into this just recently, looking at how do step estimates compare across these devices. And we see there's some variability, but all of them are relatively, are pretty accurate. And I like to say, if you use a device, stick with that device. If you see improvements in your steps, you are increasing your physical activity and you're doing great things. So using a device, sticking with that device is great. And even a $30 pedometer will do the trick.

James Hill:
And your phone does it too, right? Your smartphone is doing it in the background all the time.

Amanda Paluch:
Absolutely. And I love to, you know, have a conversation with people who are just kind of thinking about their steps. And I ask, you know, like, “you can pull out your phone right now and see where you are.” And there's times when we're not carrying our phone, but a lot of the times we are. And so there is an opportunity to at least see where am I approximately right now and what would be a reasonable goal to get to next.

James Hill:
Fantastic. Okay, Holly.

Holly Wyatt:
Something someone could do right now and look if they've never.

James Hill:
Absolutely. It's doing it. See, that's the beauty. If we had something that tracked food intake the same way, so it's doing it without you having to worry about anything, it would be a game changer.

James Hill:
All right, Holly, it's time for your favorite segment.

Holly Wyatt:
Rapid fire. So, Amanda, these are just rapid fire questions. Whatever comes to the top of your head, short answers, not right or wrong. No pressure. No pressure. All right. Number one, 10,000 steps, myth, milestone, or marketing?

Amanda Paluch:
Oh, marketing by a long shot.

Holly Wyatt:
One word to describe what steps represent as a health metric.

Amanda Paluch:
I would say simplicity.

James Hill:
Ah, I like that.

Holly Wyatt:
Walking or running, which is better for longevity?

Amanda Paluch:
Both. Either one, whatever works for you, whatever you're going to stick with and that you enjoy most.

Holly Wyatt:
I love that answer. Most surprising finding from your research?

Amanda Paluch:
I would say we were surprised by the age difference and that we saw this, you know, nearly 2,000 step difference between an older and a younger adult.

Holly Wyatt:
Okay. This is a question for you. What do you do when you're having a low step day? So you're not to your goal. You notice that you're at 2,000. What do you do?

Amanda Paluch:
So if I'm at a low step day, say by the end of work, I'll try to see if I can make a meeting, a walking meeting. And also if it's at the very end of the day, I'll see if I can get my husband or my kid out to go for for a walk at the end of the day. So just finding like even a little bit more. And there's also days where it's like, “Oh, I didn't hit it today. I'll get it next time.” So also not being too hard on myself.

James Hill:
Yeah, the walking meetings, I love. Back when we were doing America On The Move, we really promoted those a lot. And I remember there was one CEO of an insurance company, and every day he would go for a walk and employees could go with him. So if you wanted to get the CEO's ear, you had to go and walk with him. And it really helped the culture of the organization because they felt like they had a direct time to contact. So I think the walking meetings can be used in such positive ways. You're getting your activity and you're doing some other things that are important along with it.

James Hill:
All right, Amanda, our last segment is what we call the vulnerability segment. We try to ask questions that are less about the science and more about you. So I'll go first, Holly.

Holly Wyatt:
All right.

James Hill:
Is there a finding from your research that challenged what you expected to be true?

Amanda Paluch:
So I was surprised by the age difference. As we've thought about it more, I think it makes sense. But, you know, like we talked about, we've really been trying to think about steps for creating a guideline, creating promotion. And really that 150 minutes has applied to both an older and a younger adult. And then we see these steps, but then it goes back to that relative intensity. And so that's where we see that this metric, it might be different for an older versus a younger adult. And we didn't expect to see that. And it was surprising.

Holly Wyatt:
Here is another one. What do you wish the public understood about how science actually works?

Amanda Paluch:
So just as in this project, it was a very incremental and collaborative project that took, and we really went in letting this data drive our decisions. And so thinking about how it was this international group of experts and so many minds that went into helping to decide how to answer this question and answer it well in a very systematic way, that this is how we came to this number, that it is not pulled out of the air. It was done in a very systematic way and intentional way by a lot of brilliant minds.

James Hill:
Amanda, you are relatively early in your career. What would you like to accomplish in the years ahead?

Amanda Paluch:
I would love for steps to be a recommendation that is done at a public health scale. It is an established recommendation that then individuals can use in their programs and in their clinics. And it becomes this just natural thing that we think of first. The other thing that I would love is that clinicians and those working with patients, it is one of the first things they ask about is how many steps are you taking, and it becomes part of our culture for promoting health.

James Hill:
Cool. Okay. Before we close, I want to give you one last chance to talk to the people that are listening. They may be trying to lose weight. They may be thinking about their health. What do you tell them on how to make changes around walking?

Amanda Paluch:
It's not an all or nothing situation. So doing a little bit more matters and finding those unique opportunities to say just today, think about one way you can get 500 more steps today. And you'll see that 500 more steps, that's a quarter mile. And you can get it in just thinking about a five-minute walk today. And it could be, say, after you drop your kid off at soccer, you're waiting to pick them up or you have just a brief moment in between meetings to go for a quick walk. So finding those unique moments that fit into your lifestyle right now and making those a habit and then working from there and increasing your steps.

James Hill:
Wow. Thank you. Well, I really appreciate this conversation because it really helps make health more achievable. We give people all these goals that sometimes they just tune them out because they're so far away from where they are. But you have shown that you can do this. It's achievable in small changes in the amount you walk.

Amanda Paluch:
Absolutely. All about simplicity. Keeping it simple and achievable. That's the goal. And I think that's what's the beauty of steps.

James Hill:
And remember, the biggest changes occur with the people doing the least movement right now. So if you're totally sedentary, get started. Amanda, thank you. It's been really nice talking to you. And I think you're doing amazing work.

Amanda Paluch:
Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Holly Wyatt:
So encouraging. So thank you so much for being on the show. I think our listeners are going to love hearing this.

Amanda Paluch:
Oh, thank you.

James Hill:
Keep those questions coming in, and we'll see you next time on Weight Loss And. Bye.

Holly Wyatt:
Bye, everybody.

James Hill:
And that's a wrap for today's episode of Weight Loss And. We hope you enjoy diving into the world of weight loss with us.

Holly Wyatt:
If you want to stay connected and continue exploring the “Ands” of weight loss, be sure to follow our podcast on your favorite platform.

James Hill:
We'd also love to hear from you. Share your thoughts, questions, or topic suggestions by reaching out at weightlossand.com. Your feedback helps us tailor future episodes to your needs.

Holly Wyatt:
And remember, the journey doesn't end here. Keep applying the knowledge and strategies you've learned and embrace the power of the “And” in your own weight loss journey.