Why Your Spice Rack Is Your Best Health Tool with Penny Kris-Etherton and Kristina Petersen

James Hill:
Welcome to Weight Loss And, where we delve into the world of weight loss. I'm Jim Hill.

Holly Wyatt:
And I'm Holly Wyatt. We're both dedicated to helping you lose weight, keep it off, and live your best life while you're doing it.

James Hill:
Indeed, we now realize successful weight loss combines the science and art of medicine, knowing what to do and why you will do it.

Holly Wyatt:
Yes, the “And” allows us to talk about all the other stuff that makes your journey so much bigger, better, and exciting.

James Hill:
Ready for the “And” factor?

Holly Wyatt:
Let's dive in.

James Hill:
Here we go.

Holly Wyatt:
Today, we're talking about something I think a lot of people overlook when they think about their health, when they think about weight management. We're going to talk about herbs and spices. Most of us think of them as something we add, I think, at the end of cooking, you know, just to add some flavor. But what if those small ingredients sitting in your spice rack right now actually play a much bigger role in health than we realize? Because when you start looking at the science, herbs and spices contain compounds that may influence inflammation, cardiometabolic health, and even how sustainable healthy eating is over time.

James Hill:
So that's right, Holly. When people try to improve their diet, they usually focus on big changes. Eat more vegetables. How many times do we hear that?

James Hill:
Cut sugar. Reduce calories. Avoid ultra-processed foods. So these are sort of the big messages out there. But there's another question that we really rarely ask, and what if improving the flavor of healthy foods actually helps people stick with those changes?

Holly Wyatt:
Exactly. Because if healthy food doesn't taste good, we know people will not keep eating it. We see that all the time. And herbs and spices might be one of the simplest tools we have to make healthy foods more enjoyable while also potentially providing bioactive compounds to support their health. And Jim, you know how I love a win-win. When we can do something because it's gonna make it easy, it's gonna make it taste good, and we get that bonus, it's gonna help us in some other way.

James Hill:
Okay. Well, to help us unpack the science behind this, we're joined by two leading researchers from Penn State University. First is Dr. Penny Kris-Etherton. She is the Evan Pugh University Professor of Nutrition Sciences Emeritus and one of the most respected scientists studying diet and cardiovascular health. Now, Penny and I have known each other for a long time, so she is one of our two researchers who's toward the end of her career, but she has just made amazing strides in her career. And at the other end, we have Dr. Kristina Peterson. She's Associate Professor of Nutrition Sciences. Her research focuses on how foods and bioactive compounds influence cardiometabolic disease risk. And she is a rising star toward the beginning of her career. So we have someone that's done it for years and a rising star who's doing amazing work in this field. So Penny and Christina, welcome to Weight Loss Hand.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Thank you.

Kristina Petersen:
Thank you.

James Hill:
All right, Penny, I'll start with you. I know you've spent your career studying diet and cardiovascular health. When you look at the science today, do you think herbs and spices are something nutrition science may have underestimated a bit?

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
This is an excellent question. You know, as I was thinking about this a lot, I just looked at the history of nutrition science. And just going back to the mid-20th century, we see that individual nutrients were studied, mainly to figure out nutrient requirements for deficiency diseases. Then we cured all that. And then we did research looking at a foundation diet. And that is what should we be recommending in terms of foods so that people meet all their nutrient needs? And that went on for a while until finally, the present time, when now we're looking at dietary patterns and we're looking at the synergy of all the nutrients and foods and the bioactive components. And what we found is that healthy dietary patterns are plant-based. They have a lot of plants in them, a variety of plants. And so there's been a lot of plant-based research, but we haven't really thoroughly and in great depth explored spices and herbs. Well, they're plant-based foods. So now the research is about evolving and we're finding all sorts of wonderful metabolic effects of herbs and spices.

James Hill:
Penny, I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, this idea that if you take a food and put it down into its ingredients, you will understand that food. And what we realize is there are interactions. If you eat this food with another food, it may be different than if you eat it with a third food. And while that sounds complex, I think it's very exciting. and it allows us to focus on the diet, not just on the individual nutrients.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Yes.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. I think that's exciting too. It's also, I think, hard for our listeners sometimes because people will say, eat this with this, and there won't necessarily be any data behind it, but they're starting to hear that message and they want to know, what do I need to combine? So I think it's an exciting time, but also kind of confusing because it is complex out there. So, Kristina, I have a question from you. From the perspective of the research you're doing now, I love that you're just getting started and you're really that cutting edge, where are you seeing the most interesting signals from?

Kristina Petersen:
Yes, like Penny said, we know a lot about what people should be eating. But I think one of the challenges we have is it's hard to eat a healthy diet. And I think herbs and spices can really play a role there. And we do have some interesting signals to show that herbs and spices may help people to eat healthier foods. So foods that are lower in sodium, added sugar, saturated fat, but also things like more vegetables and whole grains and plant proteins. And so we're really seeing a lot of potential here for herbs and spices to help people implement those healthy diets that we know will improve their health.

James Hill:
Yeah, it seems to me like there are two big buckets here, and correct me if I'm wrong. One is herbs and spices to help people eat healthier foods and find them more enjoyable. But herbs and spices may have some direct effects on health themselves. Is that true?

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Yes. In fact, there are very potent and impressive metabolic benefits of herbs and spices. And our work showed that just a regular diet just with added herbs and spices can lower blood pressure. But also, there are studies showing that it lowers triglycerides, increases insulin sensitivity, and so helps people manage blood glucose levels, and then also improves endothelial function; and that is specifically makes the blood vessels healthier. And a lot of the research that has been done has been done in, it's called the postprandial state or after meal. And so that herbs and spices can help with fat clearance, triglyceride clearance, and also improve insulin sensitivity to help manage blood glucose levels and then also improve endothelial function as well after a meal.

James Hill:
Yeah, it's maybe not too surprising because most of the drugs we developed actually came from plants and other things. So it's not really that much of a stretch to think that herbs and spices would have some of these effects.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, we think about food as medicine a lot on this podcast or talk about using food as medicine. And a lot of times we think of the broad picture of food. But then within the food, the spices and the herbs, I think, are playing a big role in how you can add that to certain foods. Then just adds a whole another layer on this that I think is really interesting. Give us something. Give us one thing. So right now we're talking broad, but give us one thing that, one compound, one spice that you think is kind of hot right now that you think a lot of people are studying that might play a role in some of these inflammation or endothelial, like you were talking about, function, something kind of up and coming.

James Hill:
Holly likes examples.

Holly Wyatt:
I know. I know. I do.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
[9:01] Well, just real quickly, you know, the compounds that have been looked at a lot are allicin, which is in garlic, curcumin, which is in turmeric, cinnamaldehyde, which is in cinnamon, ginger ale in ginger, and rosmarinic acid, which is in rosemary. And there are others, too, like black pepper is one.

James Hill:
Oh, yeah, that's hot.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
It's really hot.

James Hill:
So, Kristina, one of the things that I think maybe some people may get confused about is we have spices in culinary amounts, which is what you would put in cooking. Then I can go into the drugstore and there are all kinds of supplements that are probably more than you would get in culinary sense. Help us distinguish between those two. Do both have an impact? How do you think about that?

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah, so where this research started was really looking at those supplements and what happens if we give people really high doses of cinnamon, for example. But now we've moved towards looking more at the culinary amounts because those are the amounts that people are going to be consuming as part of the diet. There are also some safety concerns around supplements. So I wouldn't necessarily advocate for somebody to go to a drugstore and buy really high doses. We have seen recently some data about turmeric and the potential for liver damage with really high doses of those. I think it's better to get your spices in culinary doses. And as Penny said earlier, we have shown some benefits with blood pressure and some other outcomes with those culinary doses.

James Hill:
Yeah, Penny, what I would like to hear is how you do these studies. Tell our listeners a little bit about how you might do a study to look at the impact of curcumin or cinnamon, etc. What would that look like from a research design standpoint?

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
That's a good question. You know, these are full feeding studies. And so that in addition to the investigators, investigative team, working really hard to make sure everything is absolutely perfect. The subjects or our participants have to be willing to just eat all the foods that we give them and comply, adhere with everything that we want them to do. So, for example, they've got to be able to donate blood and other biological samples. They've got to come and pick up their food. So it is something that can be quite taxing for them. And we have very strict requirements for beverage consumption, i.e. Alcohol and coffee and tea. They can't drink too much of that because that's going to interfere with our study results. They have to be willing to stop taking vitamins and supplements. It's a major commitment for participants then to get in a study like this. Basically we plan the study and it usually takes months. We prepare the menus.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
We test them. And with our spice study, we worked very closely with McCormick Science Institute and their expert chefs in preparing very delicious meals. And we taste tested them with our administrative staff and students that work with us. We got all the worksheets put together and then we started to advertise the study and recruit. And all of that is just, it's very, very time-consuming. You know, we try to recruit subjects, people who are interested. They think they're interested and they go through some of the steps along the way and then they just decide, “oh, wait, this is just, too much work. I just can't participate in this.” And so the recruitment goes on and on for a while. And the studies can take at least a year to complete from start to finish, if not a little bit longer. Then once the study's over, you have to analyze all the samples and do the statistical analyses and figure out what results you want to report. So it is a labor of love and science that oftentimes yields real interesting findings.

James Hill:
And Penny has been doing this for decades, and that shows the extent of what's really necessary to do careful research in this area.

Holly Wyatt:
I like this, but I know what my listeners are going to want to know. They're going to send me some emails. I can already feel it. They want some details. So can we talk about sodium reduction? Because that's something people, especially maybe that need to watch that for blood pressure or for other reasons, health-related reasons. Are there spices that can really make a difference in terms of sodium reduction?

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah. So sodium plays a huge role in flavor. There are other reasons why sodium is in food, but a key one is related to taste. So we've done a lot of research showing that you can actually reduce sodium and then add herbs and spices. It can really be whatever, whatever you like, because the goal is to improve the flavor profile. And when we do that, we find that people rate those recipes that we've reduced the sodium in and added the herbs and spices similarly to the original recipe that's high in sodium. So that really shows that herbs and spices can be a good substitute for sodium to replace flavor.

Holly Wyatt:
Can you give us some examples of if someone's at home and they're like, okay, I'm not going to get out the salt. I'm not going to put the salt in this soup or whatever. What could they be thinking they might replace that with that would give them the flavor they're looking for?

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah, and again, it's going to depend on what you enjoy. But a good place to start with any spice flavoring is onion powder, garlic powder. That's a really good base. And then onto that, you can layer the profile that you're looking for. So if you're looking for a more Mediterranean spin, maybe you could add some basil and parsley. If you want something a bit spicy, maybe you could add some red pepper, black pepper, whatever your favorite kind of chili is. So really, I think experiment, explore, and lean into the flavors that you enjoy.

James Hill:
You know, one of the problems, I think, is that Americans don't have the history of spice use that some of the cultures have. And so a lot of people are going and say, well, I've got salt and pepper and maybe oregano or something, how do people explore a little bit if they're saying, “Yeah, you know what, I might like to try this, but I didn't grow up learning to use herbs and spices.” How can people actually get started?

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah, a good way to do that is exploring some of the blends that are commercially available because it takes a lot of the risk out of it, right? With that, I would caution people to try to choose one that doesn't have salt added because some of them do have a lot of salt in them. So, pick one of those blends and then test it in a couple of recipes. When you're reaching for the salt shaker, instead of doing that, put the blend. And then as you get more familiar with different flavor profiles and things, then you could start exploring by buying individual spices and herbs and then adding those to your food.

James Hill:
So experiment a little bit.

Holly Wyatt:
We like that.

Kristina Petersen:
Experiment. It should be fun.

Holly Wyatt:
Yes, it should be fun. Absolutely. All right. I want to move to inflammation. That's the other hot topic, especially…

James Hill:
Wait a minute. We don't want to go there yet.

Holly Wyatt:
Where are we going?

James Hill:
We talked about reducing sodium. What are the other things people want to reduce? Fat and sugar. Can spices be used to reduce fat and sugar?

Kristina Petersen:
Absolutely. So, again, we've done work with added sugars and also saturated fat. Added sugars, I think, is an easy one. Again, when you're reaching to put sugar in something, rather than do that, look for cinnamon, maybe, or vanilla can be great. So, thinking about breakfast if you're having oatmeal or cereal, rather than adding sugar, add some cinnamon. That can be a great way to reduce your sugar. Saturated fat tends to be a little bit harder just because fat has some sensory properties in food too. But again, we've had some success with that where you're using a lower fat version of a food and then adding in some herbs and spices just to boost that flavor profile.

James Hill:
Okay.

Holly Wyatt:
So while we're on that then, what about, and I don't know if this is true, but I want to ask it: any spices or combination of spices have any role in appetite regulation? With all the new GLP-1s, that's a big, big thing. And we talk about kind of using food as medicine to replace the medications or, you know, help with appetite. Any spices that have any data about helping with appetite regulation?

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah, I think that's a good question. And I think it's something that we're actively exploring currently. So, there is some evidence around chili peppers. So, potentially speeding up metabolism somewhat, which may help increase energy expenditure, the effects are pretty small. So whether they would actually result in loss of body weight over time, I think is a real question. There is some more recent evidence, though, showing that when you add chili pepper to a meal, it actually slows people down. So it slows them down, they feel fuller, and they stop eating sooner and actually consume less calories. They also like those foods. So they're not eating them because they don't like the flavor profile. So I think potentially a role for chili peppers, but I think more research is really needed in that space.

Holly Wyatt:
All right. So inflammation, people talking about that, we think that may be a big player in a lot of the chronic diseases that we see out there. And so I see lots of ads talking about different compounds. And I know we have to be careful supplements versus spices. Any role for spices in decreasing inflammation?

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Yeah. There's some research showing that curcumin decreases inflammation, and that's the bioactive compound in turmeric. You don't want to just use tons and tons of it, of course, but some of it on vegetables, rice dishes, meat, seafood, poultry, may play a role in decreasing inflammation a little bit.

Holly Wyatt:
I went down that rabbit hole. Does it matter how I buy it, the form it comes in, and then give me an idea. Is sprinkling just a little on top enough? Can you give me any kind of how much I need and the type? Does it matter?

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Yeah. So, when you think about therapeutic doses, basically they range from about a quarter of a teaspoon to one and three quarters of a teaspoon or so. So it's not a huge amount, even a therapeutic dose. You don't want to overdo it because then it won't taste very good either. That'll be deterrent.

Holly Wyatt:
And we can just buy turmeric, just any kind of turmeric we see in the store.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Yeah.

Holly Wyatt:
We're good with that. Okay.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Yeah.

James Hill:
Kristina, I'm curious about, you're earlier in your research career than Penny and I, let's put it that way. What are the questions that you're really looking at in this area? And where's your research going to go here over the next few years?

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah, we're really looking at the behavioral piece of this. So, you know, can we use herbs and spices to get people to eat a healthier diet and be able to sustain that over time? We know the number one driver of food choice and intake is taste. So people pick foods because of taste more so than cost, convenience, health. Really we're leaning into flavor and how can we make healthy eating flavorful, enjoyable, with the hope that that will help sustain people and help them to follow a healthy diet for longer. And then we'll see some of those health benefits.

James Hill:
Okay. It's there, again, back to the GLP-1 meds, because that's what everybody's going gaga about. And one of the things that we know is the meds produce weight loss, and in some ways, it doesn't matter what you eat. You eat less. But now we're worried about nutritional deficiencies in people on the GLP-1 meds. Do you think there's a role of herbs and spices there in helping people actually get an adequate nutrition, even though they're greatly reducing their food intake?

Kristina Petersen:
I think so. And there's some evidence that these medications change preferences and also influence our taste in some ways. So, I think we need more research in this space, but I think there is potential for herbs and spices to help people eat more nutrient-dense foods. So as you said, Jim, people are eating less. So that means what they do eat has to be nutrient dense in order for them to not have deficiency in some of these nutritional issues that we are seeing.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
And there is some evidence, too, that black pepper then can increase absorption of carotenoids.

James Hill:
Ah.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
And also increase the bioactives in turmeric as well. But just a pinch of black pepper with a vegetable can make it more nutrient-dense, along with a little bit of oil as well. So you might not have to eat quite as much broccoli to get all the vitamin A there.

James Hill:
Yeah, that's actually exciting.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. So in our book, Losing the Weight Loss Meds, one of our plays that we talk about is eating more plant-based foods. So I like this idea of being able to add the spices and counting that as a plant-based food. So that's really interesting. And I love when you talk about synergies and that really brings us to the microbiome. So where are we in looking at spices and maybe how it impacts the microbiome, which now we're talking about, it may have such a big role in appetite and body weight and metabolism.

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah, so we have done a little bit of work looking at the microbiome. And what we've seen in a study where we gave people culinary doses of a lot of different herbs and spices is that we did change the bacteria that were present in the gut. And so suggesting that potentially, we're increasing abundance of bacteria that are able to metabolize these different herbs and spices. But we really need more work to understand the health implications of that. So how is that influencing health and disease risk?

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, I don't know that we're there in terms of everything. The microbiome, we're trying to understand, yes, you change the bacteria. What does that actually do? Not just association, but kind of cause and effect. But it's interesting to think that the spices may be part of that picture.

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah, especially in the doses we're studying, right? You know, we're studying about a teaspoon a day. So, it's small amounts, but they do seem to be having an impact on the gut.

James Hill:
A small effect over time can be very, very powerful. In fact, that's probably what we should be looking for rather than these huge effects that aren't sustainable.

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah, I agree.

James Hill:
Holly, it's time for your favorite segment.

Holly Wyatt:
Rapid fire.

James Hill:
Rapid fire. Holly loves this.

Holly Wyatt:
I do, because we get a lot of information quickly. And I know the listeners like this too. So this is just our rapid fire round. I will ask a question, or in this case, I may just name a spice. No pressure, no pressure at all, but just give us a key takeaway. Just maybe even the first thing that pops into your head, something that might be helpful for the listener to know. All right. Are we ready?

James Hill:
Ready.

Holly Wyatt:
First spice, turmeric.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Okay. Decreases inflammation and black pepper increases its bioavailability. So take those two together.

Holly Wyatt:
Okay. So black pepper helps absorb turmeric. Is that right?

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Yes.

Holly Wyatt:
Okay. I like that. All right. Next up, cinnamon.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Okay. I was going to do the first three. So it helps manage blood glucose levels.

Holly Wyatt:
Really?

James Hill:
There's actually some pretty good evidence there.

Holly Wyatt:
Okay. So, so far, I would need to make sure I have that in my spice cabinet. Turmeric, black pepper, and cinnamon. All right. Next up, ginger.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Okay. So, that helps with fat clearance. So, you have a fatty meal and the blood triglycerides, the blood fat increases. Ginger will help clear that faster.

Holly Wyatt:
I did not know that. Do you think that's why ginger is kind of good to settle a stomach? People take ginger sometimes when it helps with digestion kind of just from feeling full or when they're feeling. I just, I never, I had no idea, though, that it actually did that in terms of fat clearance. Wow. All right. Now I'm adding that one, too. Next up, garlic.

Kristina Petersen:
So garlic's good for elevating the flavor of a dish. So it's a good base. And then you can add on, you know, whatever herb or spice you like to add more flavor to your dish.

Holly Wyatt:
So this is kind of making healthy foods taste better. That's how you put garlic into that category. Nice. All right. Chili peppers. We heard a little bit. What do you think about those?

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah. So it can slow your eating, right? So you're eating less at a meal, consuming less calories potentially over the day. And that can help with weight management.

James Hill:
That works for me, Holly. I don't eat anything with chili peppers in it. So my intake goes down.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, I don't think that's what we mean, Jim.

James Hill:
That's not what you meant.

Holly Wyatt:
No.

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah, so these foods were not super spicy. People were still eating the meal. They were eating most of it. The reduction we saw was about 10% and they still like the food.

Holly Wyatt:
Is it because they slow down? Is it because they drink more during it? Do you know why it tends to decrease the amount of calories?

Kristina Petersen:
It's a good question. They measured fluid intake and didn't see a difference in fluid intake. I think the idea is that it has more flavor. So, you're kind of savoring that as you're consuming the meal.

Holly Wyatt:
So it's not that it's burning your mouth and you're slowing down to, Ah, see, Jim, I was assuming the wrong thing. I thought it was because you had to slow down.

James Hill:
Well, you obviously do that too often.

Holly Wyatt:
Well, I do. I'm very sensitive. So if I eat some with pepper, I have to slow down because it'll burn my mouth.

James Hill:
See, I just don't eat things with pepper. So that's an easy way out.

Holly Wyatt:
All right. All right. Last one on this list, black pepper.

Kristina Petersen:
So black pepper helps with absorption. So whether that's carotenoids or the compounds in turmeric, putting that on vegetables can really help to increase your body's ability to absorb the nutrients in those vegetables.

Holly Wyatt:
Okay, I'm adding that one too.

James Hill:
Okay, I have a question for both of you. What's the most underrated spice in your opinion?

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Okay. In my opinion, cumin. And we didn't talk about this. It has a nice distinct flavor. It's kind of warm and spicy without the burn. And it's earthy and nutty. And it's just sort of a good all-around seasoning. So if you're making tacos or soup, we use it a lot for soups. And it helps thicken them up just a little bit. But it has some health benefits that we haven't really talked about. So we talked about anti-inflammatory effects for sure, but also there's some research showing that cumin stimulates the secretion of some pancreatic enzymes, so it can help a little bit with digestion. And these include amylase, proteases, and lipases, so it can help break down carbohydrates, proteins, and fats a little bit. And that might be helpful for people on GLP-1, but then also glycemic control.

James Hill:
Kristina?

Kristina Petersen:
So I would say sumac. It's a commonly consumed spice in Middle Eastern food. And it has a really nice lemony, fruity flavor. And so we put it a lot on vegetables, but it's also great on protein. So you can sprinkle it on a chicken breast or a piece of fish or steak. So it's really versatile. And I don't think we know a lot about the health effects. But from a flavor perspective, I think it's a huge win.

James Hill:
So, you've convinced Holly to try some of these spices. So, should she go out and buy the supplements? Should she start using them more in culinary doses? What's your advice to her?

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah, I would stay away from the supplements. Supplements in the U.S. Are not regulated heavily. So, there can be a lot of issues with supplements. I think using them in culinary doses, as we've talked about, we have seen a lot of health benefits with the amounts that people can reasonably consume as part of their diet on a daily basis. So I think start experimenting with adding them to the foods that you enjoy and try to use them to get some more healthy foods in.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Yeah, make food's real delicious. Isn't that better than just popping a pill?

James Hill:
But the problem is Holly doesn't cook. So what are we going to do for her?

Holly Wyatt:
I microwave. You can use this in the microwave, right?

James Hill:
Okay.

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah. And I think that's a good point for people who don't cook. There are a lot of low sodium foods on the market and often people stay away from them because they're worried that they're not going to taste good. So buying a low sodium option and then adding spices onto those.

James Hill:
I like that, Holly. That's a very practical tip.

Holly Wyatt:
There we go, Jim. I don't know that you cook a lot either. So I'm not sure what, I think Trish is doing the cooking for you.

James Hill:
I have a wife who's a good cook.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, so.

James Hill:
I married well.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. All right. We got a couple more rapid ones that I think are good, Jim.

James Hill:
All right.

Holly Wyatt:
Put those out there.

James Hill:
Go for it.

Holly Wyatt:
One spice. You can only have one spice. Only one. I know it's going to be hard. One spice every kitchen should have.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
I think it's pepper.

Holly Wyatt:
Black pepper.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Black pepper.

Holly Wyatt:
Okay.

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah, I would say red pepper. Okay.

James Hill:
We got the pepper covered.

Holly Wyatt:
All right. So I think that I'll definitely start there. And fastest way to boost flavor?

Kristina Petersen:
I would say garlic.

Holly Wyatt:
All right.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
I'd say a spice blend. Maybe start with onion powder, garlic powder.

James Hill:
Yeah. The spice blends are something people should really take a look at. I know we've all worked a lot with McCormick's, and they've put together, they've tried lots of different things, and they have these blends that they've worked out. And that's a good way to explore some of the spice blends, and they're available in the supermarkets.

James Hill:
Holly, we've covered most of the listener questions, but there's one that we haven't covered, and that's, is there a difference between fresh and dried herbs?

Kristina Petersen:
So the dried are more concentrated, and they're also more shelf stable. When you buy fresh herbs, they tend to go bad pretty quickly. So if you're buying them, you want to make sure you're going to use them within a couple of days. But I think the dried herbs are great just to have them in the cupboard. They last a long time and so they can be very convenient.

Holly Wyatt:
So if you're using fresh, you need to use more. Is that true?

Kristina Petersen:
And you do tend to, yeah. So I think the conversion is like one to four. So if a recipe says to have fresh, just divide the weight by four if you're using dried.

Holly Wyatt:
Got it. I have hydroponic gardening this year. It was on my...

James Hill:
Oh, my gosh.

Holly Wyatt:
Yes, it was on my resolution, you know, list at the beginning of the year. And it's growing. And guess what I'm growing? I'm growing herbs. So this could be real.

James Hill:
I can't wait for the outcome of this.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, this is the question I needed. So, all right, Jim, do some vulnerability questions.

James Hill:
I have one for Penny. We like to ask this of seasoned researchers. What nutritional belief have you changed your mind about over your career?

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
Okay, for me, that's an easy one. I used to be an ardent supporter of a low-fat diet. I thought fat, all fat was bad, even good fats. And actually then doing research on different fats and fatty acids changed my mind completely. And now I'm really a very strong supporter of a Mediterranean style diet, one that's a little bit higher, but in good fats.

James Hill:
Kristina? I can ask you the same one.

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah.

James Hill:
Have you changed your mind about anything yet?

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah.

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah. I mean, yeah, as we've noted, my career is much shorter. But, I think as I was kind of beginning, that was around the time that, the field was really moving from a focus on nutrients to more thinking about foods and dietary patterns. And so one thing that kind of stands out is dietary cholesterol. In my training, there was guidance around limiting dietary cholesterol to manage blood cholesterol levels and then reduce your risk of heart disease. But I think now we know that for most people, saturated fat is going to be a much larger contributor to blood cholesterol levels. So we don't need to worry so much about dietary cholesterol. Just focus on that healthy dietary pattern that's going to be lower in saturated fat.

James Hill:
Wow, you both did really good. You know, we find when we ask this question, it's hard for a lot of people to say that. You'll love this. Holly and I did a whole podcast episode on what we got wrong in our career, and we ran out of time before we got through everything. But that's part of research. You get it wrong, and it helps you go to the next step.

Penny Margaret Kris-Etherton:
That's right.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, I think if you can't look back and find things you got wrong, then you're not really doing the research, in my opinion, or pushing the envelope enough or asking really interesting, cutting questions. So that's just my thoughts. All right. Let's ask one more. All right. I'll ask this to Kristina. What originally drew you into researching herbs and spices? Why did you go this direction?

Kristina Petersen:
Yeah. My career has really been focused on, you know, diet-related prevention of cardiovascular disease. I started out looking a lot at different foods and different diets, but now I've kind of moved to how do we get people to do these things? And I think that's really where the herbs and spices fit in, because they're a really powerful tool to get people to eat more of the foods that we want them to eat and actually enjoy eating them. I think there is a lot of research questions in the space of herbs and spices and how we can really use them to help people implement recommendations for a healthy diet.

Holly Wyatt:
Sounds like you can have a long career. Lots of questions yet to be discovered.

James Hill:
I think it's very exciting what you're doing. This whole idea of we spend so much time telling people what they should eat, but they have to eat it to have the impact. And sometimes we don't focus enough on that. Well, we've learned a lot. Holly's going to go out and get a lot of spices for her microwaved meals. And really what we've learned is that herbs and spices may seem like small ingredients, but they can have an impact. There are substances in these that can have a direct effect on health, and then they can be used to help you make a healthier diet more enjoyable, which means you will eat it. So sometimes the simplest tools for better health are already in your kitchen. Penny and Kristina, we thank you so much for joining us. This was a great episode, and we'll see you next time on Weight Loss And.

Holly Wyatt:
Bye, everybody.

James Hill:
And that's a wrap for today's episode of Weight Loss And. We hope you enjoy diving into the world of weight loss with us.

Holly Wyatt:
If you want to stay connected and continue exploring the “Ands” of weight loss, be sure to follow our podcast on your favorite platform.

James Hill:
We'd also love to hear from you. Share your thoughts, questions, or topic suggestions by reaching out at weightlossand.com. Your feedback helps us tailor future episodes to your needs.

Holly Wyatt:
And remember, the journey doesn't end here. Keep applying the knowledge and strategies you've learned and embrace the power of the “And” in your own weight loss journey.