Why Mind State is the Key to Weight Loss Maintenance

James Hill:

Welcome to Weight Loss And, where we delve into the world of weight loss. I'm Jim Hill.

Holly Wyatt:

And I'm Holly Wyatt. We're both dedicated to helping you lose weight, keep it off, and live your best life while you're doing it.

James Hill:

Indeed, we now realize successful weight loss combines the science and art of medicine, knowing what to do and why you will do it.

Holly Wyatt:

Yes, the “And” allows us to talk about all the other stuff that makes your journey so much bigger, better, and exciting.

James Hill:

Ready for the “And” factor?

Holly Wyatt:

Let's dive in.

James Hill:

Here we go.

Holly Wyatt:

We're going to dive into something that might just be the missing piece in your weight loss journey. And no, it's not a new diet. It's not a new workout. It's your mind state.

James Hill:

We always hear about diet and exercise when it comes to weight loss, but there's something that I think, Holly, may actually be more important. And that's why I think today's episode is critically important. We're talking about mind state. And that's a term that's more than mindset. It's not just what you believe. It's how you respond when life throws you off track. And let's be honest, it always does.

Holly Wyatt:

Exactly. I often say that life is just a series of curveballs trying to get you off track. And we talk about losing weight a lot on this program, and that takes some effort, but it's short-term effort. I say you can do anything for weeks or months, and that's really what's required for losing weight. But when it comes to maintaining it long-term, that tends to be more of a challenge for people because it's not something that's short-term. You don't just follow a plan for weeks or months. It takes a whole different set of skills because it's long-term and you've got to do it technically forever. And I think that's when mind state comes in. It's really at the center of your long-term success.

James Hill:

So have you ever said or thought, I know what to do. I just don't do it. Or I lose weight, but I can't keep it off. Or one bad day derails everything. Or I'm tired of this grind.

Holly Wyatt:

Oh my gosh, how many people have said that? I'm tired. It's hard. I'm exhausted. When does it get easier, right? People say that all the time. If you've ever said any of those things, this episode is for you because your mind state might be what's actually holding you back, and it could be the thing that finally helps everything click into place.

James Hill:

Wow. Okay, Holly, let's start with defining mind state. Now, mind state is a word we created.

Holly Wyatt:

Right.

James Hill:

We coined that term. So tell us what mind state is and how it's different from a term many people know, which is mindset.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. You know, I think I was laughing when I was kind of reading through the questions we would answer on this podcast, because it's like, who designs their own word? Who comes up with their own word? We do, Jim. There wasn't a word that really described what we wanted. We're writing this new book, Losing the Weight Loss Meds. We knew that using your mind as medicine was going to be an important part of this book, and we needed a term. And Jim, I think it was you that really came up. Let's call this mind state.

James Hill:

I'll take credit for it.

Holly Wyatt:

You did. You did. But I mean, who says, I'm just going to redefine the word.

James Hill:

And it's not like we don't like mindset. I mean, mindset's a critically important term, and a lot of researchers have done it. We just think we wanted a term which is mindset and a little more.

Holly Wyatt:

Exactly. Exactly. We kept making this big list of things, and then we needed a term that really encompassed it all. So mind state is your moment-to-moment mental and emotional condition.

James Hill:

Wow.

Holly Wyatt:

It includes your mindset. So mindset's important, and mindset is part of mind state. And I think that's really important to realize. But mind state's bigger. It also includes your emotional regulation, your thought patterns, that inner voice, your inner identity. We talk about identity. And how you live your life. your lived experience. So it's mindset plus how you live your life, basically. Jim, I remember when we were trying to kind of flesh this out, I was confused. You were the one that really was more clear on this. We rewrote this.

James Hill:

Really? I wasn't confused?

Holly Wyatt:

You were not confused. I was confused.

James Hill:

Oh my gosh.

Holly Wyatt:

How many times did we rewrite this chapter that's in the...

James Hill:

Several.

Holly Wyatt:

Oh, my gosh.

James Hill:

But it got better and better. And Holly, we coined the term mind state and I think we're still defining it. I do still learning what it is. I mean, we love it because it's more than mindset. But I got to tell you, I think as we play around with it more, we're going to understand it even more.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. When it clicked for me, because at first when you were doing it, I'm like, Jim, I don't understand. You need to write this chapter because apparently you understand it and I don't. And I remember you sent me an email and you said, Holly, parallel or think of it like you think of body state. Do you remember that?

James Hill:

Yep. Oh, yeah.

Holly Wyatt:

So Jim, explain that because I think that may be key. If you think of kind of body state is more than one thing and then mind state is more than one thing. Do you remember that?

James Hill:

Yeah. And I think over time, we've learned that the mind and body aren't separate, aren't independent things. They interact. And there's a lot that goes on with the body. And most of the time in weight loss, that's what we look at. How is your muscle, your body composition improved, your metabolic function, all that? But then there's a whole mind state that's parallel and interaction with your body state. And to me, what you really want is a healthy body state and a healthy mind state.

Holly Wyatt:

Right. And there's lots of different things that impact or go into your body state. There's more than just your weight involved in your body state. And in your mind state there's more than just your mindset. It's a whole bunch of things that bring together the state of your mind just like a bunch of things bring together the state of your body and when I started thinking of it like that it got a little bit clearer to me what we were trying to accomplish with this term. So mindset is what you believe and we talk about all the time what you believe about your goals your abilities the process you can have a positive mindset. You can have a growth mindset. So you believe you can change. You believe things are going to work out, et cetera. That's important. We want that.

James Hill:

Very important.

Holly Wyatt:

Yep. But mind state is that it's what you believe. It's how you live and how you experience and respond to life. So it's, yes, you've got the mindset, you've got the lens of what you believe and how you see things, but it's then how you take that and use that to respond to life, especially when there's the curveballs or when things aren't going as planned. So it's that next step after mindset. It's all the skills and everything else, the emotional resilience you have, et cetera, that is added to that mindset.

James Hill:

Are there some other examples of how the mind state and mindset differ, Holly?

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. So one way that I've been thinking about it when I'm writing, at least, is mindset is belief and mind state is belief in action.

James Hill:

Okay.

Holly Wyatt:

Does that make sense?

James Hill:

Yeah, I think it does.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. So belief in action.

James Hill:

We'll give some illustrations as we go on in this episode. We'll give some examples.

Holly Wyatt:

Well, let's give a couple right now. I wrote down a couple because I think this is really important for people to start getting the concept of mind state versus mindset. I think the easy thing to do is not understand the difference and to think they're the same word and we're using them the same way and we're not. So mindset will say, I believe I can succeed, which is great, right? Perfect, right? I believe I can succeed. Mind state asks, how will I keep going when things feel hard or messy? So mind state believes you can succeed, but it takes it to that next level that says, how will I do that? How will I keep going when things are hard? And so it's about having the mindset that I can do it because you got to have that. and then how will I do it? What are the skills? What are the other pieces that will come in to help me get through, or allow me to live my life. So it's a mind state that allows you to do that.

James Hill:

Well, what about a mindset might say that I really don't need food to cope with stress. I can cope with stress without food. A mind state might say, how will I respond in the moment when stress hits and food feels like the easiest option? So again, yes, it's part of you don't need food to respond to stress, but it's how are are you going to do it in this kind of situation? Belief and action together.

Holly Wyatt:

Right. And you got to have the belief part. If you don't believe, then the action's not going to work, I believe. But just having the belief isn't enough. You've also got to have that, what am I going to do? And how am I going to do it? And all of that piece to really move forward. I've never believed, let's sit on the couch and believe and things happen.

James Hill:

Wouldn't that be nice? I tried that. It didn't work.

Holly Wyatt:

I don't believe in that. But I do believe in the power of the mind and what you believe is important when you combine it with action. That's when you really have the biggest bang for your buck. And that's what mind state is.

James Hill:

You want to do a couple more?

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah, I think examples are good because this is a hard concept. At least it was for me. Maybe everybody else is going to get it real easily, but I struggled.

James Hill:

Or maybe we're just full of crap and we don't get it.

Holly Wyatt:

Could be. I mean, it is kind of, it does show that we have kind of a big ego that we would just decide that we're going to.

James Hill:

We'll see if people, if it makes sense, people will use it. If not, they'll ignore it. Time will tell.

Holly Wyatt:

A third of our book is about mind state, Jim.

James Hill:

So we'll see if anybody buys their book. How about that?

Holly Wyatt:

That's true. That's true. All right. Let's give another example. Mindset would be, or would say setbacks are part of the process. Right. Recognizing, I believe that setbacks are going to happen and it's part of the process. Mind state would ask, how will I treat myself when I've messed up? Will I reset or will I spiral out of control?

James Hill:

Oh, that's a good one.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah.

James Hill:

All right. One more. So a mindset would say, I want to live a healthy lifestyle. Okay, great. The intent there, you may believe you can do it. A mind state would say, how will I make choices that reflect that on a day when everything feels off?

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah, not just on the good days.

James Hill:

Yeah. How do you handle the bad days? And again, belief that you can do it, but action, having a plan, having the right environment, having the right routines and rituals, all this is part of mind state.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah, the community, even the community and environmental support is part of mind state. So it's really big.

Holly Wyatt:

And I don't know, I think it's really starting to make sense. So I think that the fact that you talked about that you have this, how will I make choices even on a day when everything feels off, really leads us into why is mind state critical for long-term weight loss success? I mean, this is a show about weight loss. So why is mind state so critical? Why are we talking about it for weight loss success?

James Hill:

Well, one of the big reasons we talk about this in the book, it's how you handle setbacks, stress, and lack of motivation. So the idea is in short-term weight loss, you can essentially take a timeout. You can avoid high-risk situations, all kinds of stuff. But in weight loss maintenance, this is forever. This is how you live your life. And let's face it, you are going to have setbacks. You're going to experience stress. You're going to have days when your motivation is low. Having the right mind state is going to get you through those times without giving up on your goals, which is maintaining your weight.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. You know, short term, you can do anything short term, long term. And that's when your life is happening. That's where mind state really starts to be associated with success. And I also like it that a strong mind state supports consistency. And Jim, didn't we have some data about consistency from the National Weight Control Registry?

James Hill:

Absolutely. What we found is these people don't take timeouts. Even weekends and holidays, they're really consistent. Day to day, they stick with their eating plan. They stick with their physical activity. So consistency seems to be an important determinant of success.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. And I think mind state helps with consistency instead of perfection. I think a lot of times people think we have to be perfect, but that's not what the important piece is. And like I said, even in the National Weight Control Registry, it's the consistency that seems to be associated with their long-term success. I also think that mind state allows you to reset quickly when things go south and keep moving forward. And that's kind of important for weight loss maintenance, don't you think?

James Hill:

I do. The other thing, Holly, is nobody would argue that it's impossible to change your body state. I mean, come on, we know that you can lose weight, you can exercise, you can change your fitness, you can change your glucose regulation. Same thing with mind state. You can change your mind state and you can train your mind state to work for you rather than against you. And I think one of the things that we've seen in our many years of trying to help people lose and maintain weight is we see people whose mind state are keeping them from succeeding. And we see others whose mind state are really the major reason they're successful. So I guess one of the big takeaways here, you absolutely can change your mind state and you can change it from one that works against you to one that works with you.

Holly Wyatt:

I think that's an important point. I think some people think they're wired, that you're born with that.

James Hill:

Right.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah.

James Hill:

And you can't change it. You have your mind, but no, but you can change it just like you can change your body state. Yeah. And it's when your body state and your mind state are both optimized. Wow. That's the sweet spot. That's when you're really cooking.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. So this kind of leads to the next question. How does mind state shift. I think maybe we're, the way we've been talking about it, you either have it or you don't and it's 100%, but actually you shift it. It's more variable and you can shift in and out of an optimal mind state. How does it shift? How can we influence it to be strong, to strengthen it or be optimal maybe?

James Hill:

Yeah. So how?

Holly Wyatt:

Well, I think of it like energy or mood. You can change your mood. You can change your energy. It fluctuates from day to day. There's things that shape it and influence it. But there's also ways that you can build a strong mind state, that you can do things just like your body, right? You can do things to make your body stronger. You can definitely do things that would make your mind state shift or make it stronger over time. I think it's shaped by your stress, your sleep, your environment, relationships, your thought patterns, you can work on all that.

James Hill:

Well, we have a whole chapter in our book on how you can improve your mind state.

Holly Wyatt:

Right.

James Hill:

And this is critically important. And again, even if your mind state right now is not good working against you, you can change that and you can constantly work on it. Just as eating healthy and being physically active can help your body state, the activities that we talk about in our book can help your mind state.

Holly Wyatt:

Right. Things you can change. The other piece that makes this a little bit different than body state is it does fluctuate from moment to moment to experience to experience, but you overall have a predominant. Overall my mind state is this way. So you can kind of look at it. There's times in your days where it may shift. And then overall, what is your mind state like? And there's things you can do to make it shift in the moment, which then affects overall what's your predominant mind state for the day or the week or the year.

James Hill:

We've observed in our career, Holly, sort of three different kinds of mind state. And again, these aren't hard and fast, but they really reflect groups of people that we've seen. Why don't you take us through those three?

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. So this, you know, once again, we've kind of made some terms up, but this has really been something that's evolved through our career, Jim. This started when we were writing State of Slim and we started thinking of the importance of, you know, the mind in that and really has been progressed into this next book. But the first mind state, and we may have called it mindset at that point, but mind state, and we talked about this in State of Slim, is a victim mind state. And a lot of people bring this to their weight loss journey, right? That they're a victim to something. And a lot of times they feel overwhelmed or stuck or they can't succeed. They're a victim to their metabolism or to their spouse not helping them or to the environment. They don't have the power. They don't have the control. And it really, they come in feeling overwhelmed, stuck, just not believing in themselves or having the skills that they can to be successful. So one of the things that's most important if you're going to lose weight and keep it off is you need to shift from that victim mind state to what we call a victor mind state.

Holly Wyatt:

And so a victor mind state is more where you believe you can succeed and you have the skills and situation to be successful. You feel strong, you're disciplined, you're solution-focused, and you believe you can succeed, and you do succeed. You absolutely do.

Holly Wyatt:

I've spent most of my life, I say, in a victor mind state.

James Hill:

But Holly, for a while, we thought that was it. There were two mind states, right? Victim and victor. And we said the goal is going from a victim to a victor. But we began to study these people who were really successful. And we realized there was a third one.

Holly Wyatt:

There was a third one. And I didn't even think I was at that. I didn't go to this third state. So when I would see people in clinic, I would be like, I would catch them in a victim mind state and at my job, I would try to help them get more into a victor mind state. But now there's a third one and we talk about this in the book and we're calling this. Are you ready?

James Hill:

I'm ready. Drum roll.

Holly Wyatt:

A voyager mind state. So a voyager mind state believes that they can succeed. So they bring that piece of the victor mind state in. But instead of it being like solution focused and a lot of times very effortful, like I'm gonna just get through this, that's a victor, I'll do it, dang it, no matter how hard it is, a voyager believes they can do it but they're also curious and reflective and flexible.

Holly Wyatt:

And it doesn't have to be hard which you know how I feel about that, it can be easy, it can be fun or victor may think it's gonna be sweat, it's gonna be hard, I'm gonna push through it, I'm going to get there. I'm going to get to the outcome. But the process and the journey may not be great, but the outcome will be worth it. A Voyager believes they can do it. They're still going to get to the outcome. We're not giving up on the outcome. You know me. I don't like that. But the process and how they get to the outcome is different than a victim. In a Voyager, it's what I get to do. It's fun. It's flexible. I'm curious. How will this turn out?

Holly Wyatt:

I know I'm going to hit my goal, but I don't have to control every little step. I can be more consistent, but not perfect. And it absolutely can be fun. So that's where you're starting to add in a little bit different way of going through the process of getting to the outcome. And that I think is associated with long-term success. Voyagers talk about what they get to do. Victors talk about what they have to do.

James Hill:

We really have learned a lot from looking at people with a Voyager mind state, because again, the idea is if you're going to go out and lose weight and maintain it, it's going to be a constant struggle. You're going to just have to work so hard and sweat. People don't succeed there. They succeed when they find a lifestyle using routines and rituals that It's not hard. It becomes easy because that's their default way of living their life. And that's what people with a Voyager mind state get.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. Who wants to live their whole lives? You know, getting somewhere, you know, that getting to the outcome, but, you know, you enjoy the outcome and then there's something else that pops up. And so I think this moving from Victor to Voyager is really about how you're going to live your life and how you live your life and how you see your life and how you engage and experience life, which is really that belief in action part that defines mind state, is what allows you to succeed long term, especially weight loss maintenance, because it's your life, right? It's how you're going to live.

James Hill:

And Voyagers, typically, if you ask them about their success, they would highlight things other than their weight. They wouldn't go right to, oh, I'm keeping off 50 pounds. They would go to, oh, my relationships are better, and now I'm going dancing, and this and that. So they recognize there's more to quality of life and happiness than weight. Weight's a part of it, but it's more than that. And Voyagers get it. And they're the people that they succeed, but man, they love it. They embrace their success.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. I always say it's not a bait and switch because people always say to me, oh, Holly, you're having me give up on the outcome and having me say I'm enjoying the process. And I'm like, no, that is not it. You achieve the outcome by this process. You can achieve it by the victor process too, but which do you like better? The Voyager process or the Victor process both achieve the outcome.

James Hill:

But see, that's important. You can succeed going from a victim to a Victor. Really, it's going to help you. That's a huge change and you can succeed. But man, taking that next step and going to a Voyager is when you're really, really going to appreciate your new life.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah, I say I got through my the first part of my career as a Victor, right? that going through medical school and residency and even beyond, it was like, put my head down, grit my teeth, get through it. And it really was this second half of my life where I'm like, do I still want to live that way? Is there another way? Is there another mind state that can help me? And that really is how the Voyager mind state, along with what we were seeing and the people who were successful, really kind of, I think, was created.

James Hill:

So Holly, how do you recognize when you have or are slipping into an unhelpful or victim mind state?

Holly Wyatt:

Well, I feel it. There's certain things that you'll recognize kind of are associated with that. When I start to go into black and white thinking or negative self-talk or when I start feeling overwhelmed, a lot of times I've shifted back into maybe victor, like I've got to do all this perfectly and it's just about the outcome. Or when I start feeling like I'm shutting down or spiraling, that actually may be associated with me for a kind of victim. Oh, all these things are happening to me. Poor me. I've got that type of thoughts. So really, it's when you start to feel different or overwhelmed or out of control or things like that, that you can stop and say, where is my mind state? Where am I? Am I facing forward or am I facing backwards? Am I facing what I don't want? Or am I open to what I do want? Things like that.

James Hill:

Okay. So what can you do to strengthen your mind state?

Holly Wyatt:

Once again, I think a lot of things because mind state encompasses a lot of things. I think, for me, sleep, movement, connections with other people, time to reflect, all of that can strengthen my mind state. And then learning certain skills, setting myself up in an environment can help with my mind state. Other things can deplete it. For me, like I said, overscheduling or perfectionism sometimes kind of deplete my mind state. What about you, Jim?

James Hill:

Yeah. And Holly, in the book… I'm going to deflect this question. I learned how to do that in the media. One of the things that we talk a lot in the book is the importance of awareness, how changing your mind state starts with awareness. Talk a little bit about that.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah, if you don't recognize where you are, if you're not aware of where your mind state is, oh, I'm, you know, having more of a victim moment or a victor moment or a voyager moment, if you're not aware, you then can't make choices. If you know what you're doing, you don't beat yourself up about it. Oh, I'm in a victim mind state right now. You don't beat yourself up about it. That awareness of where you are then allows you to say, what can I do to change that? What do I need to work on? How can I move forward? But if you're not even aware, there's people out there that have no idea when they're in a victim mind state. That's part of what I've worked with people. Do you recognize that you're in a victim mind state, but they're not aware of it, so they can't make strategic choices.

James Hill:

Okay, so it does start with awareness. And we talk in the book about a lot of things that people can do to increase their awareness. Check in with yourself and see where you are.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. In the book, we talk about lots of ways to look at your mind state, to evaluate your mind state, to check in with yourself, which kind of leads to another question that I know I think you will like is how does your environment shape your mind state? Mind state's this big encompassing thing. How does the environment play a role?

James Hill:

Yeah. And this is one way that mind state's different from mindset because your environment does influence that. And it starts even with your physical spaces. Is your home chaotic? Is it something that just causes you stress when you walk around your house? Do you have spaces in your house that really support calmness? Those kinds of things. But it's also your social environment or physical environment and your social environment. Who do you hang around? Do you hang around other people who are victims or do you hang around people that sort of look positive on life? It's like, are you hanging out with people that really enjoy their life? Are you hanging out with people that are constantly, oh, my God, it's awful and this and that? Think a little bit about that. And even your digital environment. I mean, my gosh, we're learning so much about the negatives of having the whole world on your phone and computers and iPads. And man, that can stress you out if you let it sort of take over. So there are a lot of ways that your physical, social, and even digital environment can influence your mind state.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. And the people, I think that you talked about the social environment, I think is critically important. And I'll tell just a little story. When I was a fellow and you were my mentor and I would come in, I used to say I could be in the worst state of mind, really feeling like things weren't going to work out, that I wasn't good enough, that things were going to be, you know, having just this whole kind of worst state of mind, basically. Go in and talk to you, Jim, for 10 minutes and come out and feel totally different. Now, I didn't know what was going on at that point, but looking back, you've always had this positive mindset and been more of a Voyager mind state. And a positive mindset can be part of a Voyager mind state. You've done it naturally, Jim. I don't think you know what you're doing. I don't think you know what I'm doing. You didn't know what you're doing at all, but you just did it. You were more of a natural to do that. And I could go in and it would rub off on me. That social environment.

James Hill:

So we can influence others through our mind state.

Holly Wyatt:

Exactly. And I saw that with you. And a lot of when we just defined a Voyager mind state, you know, I'll just say actually come from how you, I was like, this is how Jim Hill does this. This is, you naturally have a lot of these qualities. And like I said, I don't think you know it, but, you know, you have it. So I love being around you for that reason.

James Hill:

Wow. Well, thank you.

Holly Wyatt:

And other people have it too. So find those people, hang out with them. That helps shape your mind state.

James Hill:

Yeah. When you hang out with people that have a victim mind state, it's hard not to get caught up in that.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. And that's where awareness is important. So you may have people in your life that have it. You don't have to cut them out. I try to spend less time with them. Or if I'm not in a good headspace, mind state, I actually will maybe avoid them. But if you're aware, you can be careful about how much time and whether you allow them to influence you. And then you can choose to hang out with some people who have the mind state that you're trying to develop.

James Hill:

So if you look at mind state and the journey, what you see is victors grind through the process. They get there, but it takes a lot of time and effort and mental energy and voyagers find ease and joy along the way. Now, that seems hokey. Oh, yeah, it's going to be love and flowers and all this. But we have seen these people that just see the journey as interesting and growth. And they actually do at some level, they enjoy the journey.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah, I don't think it's, you know, when we say joy and fun and rainbows and all that, it doesn't have to be to that level. I think this idea of curious and possibility, and I can align with that easier than sometimes I can align with this, you know, life is roses.

James Hill:

In the National Weight Control Registry, almost to a person, they tell us that life is better after they've lost and kept the weight off than before. So at the end of the day, what you're doing is you're trading a life that's less fulfilling and less happy for one that's more fulfilling and happier. That's a great tradeoff.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. And enjoyment and liking what's going on in your life is what's critical for sustaining some of the behaviors that need to happen for you to be able to keep your weight off so we can pull it back into weight loss maintenance. I think it's good for your life in general. It can be associated with success in maintaining a reduced body weight.

James Hill:

And so when the journey feels more meaningful and aligned, people are more likely to stay with it. And again, we turn that flip the tide to say, don't lose weight to create a happy life. We're saying, create a happy life to help you keep the weight off.

Holly Wyatt:

Yes, that's perfect because you get to keep the weight off. It's not that you're throwing away, I'm going to be happy in spite of my weight. By being happy, you will maintain your weight. It's different. I think a lot of people think, oh, you're trying to fool me, Holly. You're switching my goal. I'm like, no, no, no, we're going to keep the goal. We're just going to change how we get there.

James Hill:

Ah, so what role does identity play in mind state. Identity is a term we've talked a lot about as well.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah, and it is really important because I think identity is part of mind state. You know, it's part of the things that we're encompassing. So people in a victim mind state, they often feel stuck and they say things like, identity-based belief is I always fail. My identity is I'm someone who fails, right? Or I'm someone who can't keep their weight off, or I'm someone who can't exercise, right? Their identity is associated with that. Victors believe they can succeed, may not believe that they will fail or whatever, but their identity is based on performance or control, you know. I can succeed. I do exercise and I do it because I'm perfect at it and I push through it and I control everything in my life to get there, right? And then a voyager, though, would change a little bit more in the identity and say, yes, I am someone who succeeds I am someone who can do physical activity and eat a healthy diet and I'm also someone who's learning and figuring it out and can adapt. Right? So it feels a little bit different, that identity is, yes, I am someone who can keep my weight off and can do these things. But it's also how I'm going to go about the process, how I'm going to live my life, so I'm someone who can adapt to curveballs also when I'm doing it.

James Hill:

Okay. Well, I know we're kind of getting toward the end of the time here, but I think we probably need to do another episode or two on mind state. I think this thing is so important and we've just sort of cracked the surface. And one of the things that we could do on one of the future episodes is dive a little bit more into the things that people can do to try to shift their mindset specifically. But let's take a couple of listener questions before we close. So I'll ask you the first one. Can I really shift my mind state or am I just wired this way?

Holly Wyatt:

And that's a great question because I do think there is wiring. I do think there is a natural tendency. I do think our past experiences, I do think our physiology, I think our parents have impacted our mind state when we were kids. We lived with them. What was their mind state that impacted our mind state. The physiology of the brain can be a tendency to be more of a victim mind state. So there is wiring involved, but you can change that. You can shift it. It's not permanent. And once again, recognizing this tends to be my tendency, and here are some things I can do, believing you can change it, not being a victim. I'm a victim to my mind state, right? But believing you can change it and it's possible so you can really do it. I think the perfect example is you, Jim, I think naturally are more wired to be a Voyager mind state. So that is wiring. You just happen to have that good wiring. You may not have to work on it as much. There may be other things that you have to work on, but that may not be one of them.

James Hill:

Definitely.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah, I agree with that. There are things you need to work on.

James Hill:

You agreed too quickly, but okay.

Holly Wyatt:

That's true. But mind state isn't one for you. But for me, I started out very much more victim and victor and had to work at rewiring, at changing it over time.

James Hill:

But it's the same with body state. Genetics plays a role. So not everybody can be an elite athlete. Everybody can be fitter and have a better body composition. But genetically, you may not be wired to be a really great athlete. So same way on mind state. You can shift. You can clearly get better. And I think it's the same way with mind state.

Holly Wyatt:

So Jim, are you saying you're like an elite athlete in your mind state? You're the equivalent? Is that what you're saying?

James Hill:

I love it, Holly. I am an Olympic mind state athlete.

Holly Wyatt:

Oh my gosh. I shouldn't have said this. This is going to haunt me. All right. I have one more listener question that I think I can answer. What's one small habit that helps strengthen a Voyager mind state? I think we should do a whole show on it, but I think there is one thing that I use all the time.

James Hill:

You go ahead and answer.

Holly Wyatt:

Yeah. So for me, I always, when I catch myself being more victim or victor, I immediately can go to gratitude or appreciation and it helps turn me around and it helps me be more in a voyager mind state. So I think about what's good right now. Because a lot of times when I'm in a victim, it's like, what's not going well? Why do I not control? What's bad? What do I have to do? Or victor, oh my gosh, I've got to do all this. And so in that moment, I catch myself and I say, okay, that all may be true. I don't have to disprove any of what I'm thinking. I just simply shift my thoughts in that moment. What's good for you right now? Not the things that are bad, but what's good for me right now? What do I appreciate right now? Is there anything? And there's always something. And I start kind of focusing on that. And that allows me to start turning around into possibilities, opportunities, changing or shifting my mind state more toward the Voyager's.

James Hill:

Okay. Do we have time for vulnerability questions?

Holly Wyatt:

I think it should be for you, though.

James Hill:

All right. Go ahead.

Holly Wyatt:

Ah, all right. This may be hard for you, though, because like I said, I think you're wired to do this. I don't know that you have to work as hard as other people at it. But I guess I'll ask this. Have you ever caught yourself stuck in a mind state that maybe looked strong on the outside, but wasn't actually serving you? Have you ever caught yourself in a victim or victor mind state, Jim? There we go.

James Hill:

Well, yeah, I think the answer is yeah. And I'll give you an example. You and I are both academics and our output are publishing scientific papers and getting grants. And there have been times where, and I'll have to say I've been very successful at that most of my career, but there are times where, boy, just a perfect storm of failure. You get a grant that's just trash, just reviewers say, this is awful. Your ideas are bad. And you get a paper rejected saying, there are really problems with this paper. And sometimes this has happened all at once. And I'll have to say, I get over it fairly quickly. But for a while, it's like, oh, my gosh, I really am not good at this. I have really been a fraud. I've been lucky and now it's come down to it and I'm not really that good. I don't oftentimes show that on the outside, but I feel it and I get over it because I think about it and I reflect and I realize that I have been very successful and this one time isn't going to derail me. But I got to tell you, for a while, it can really put me in a victim mind state temporarily.

Holly Wyatt:

I love this, Jim, because what it shows you is I do think you live a big part of your life as a Voyager. But you also have moments where you're not. And so I want to back up, though. What do you do? So I think you do it naturally. but when you are in this victim or victor mind state or a victim maybe what do you do how do you because you do turn around pretty quickly and now that you're saying this there definitely have been times in your life i'm like okay i need to give Jim a day but you'll turn it around in a day.

James Hill:

I need to just feel sorry for myself for a short period of time.

Holly Wyatt:

But then what do you do to stop that?

James Hill:

Then I come back and my first response is, who are these idiots who reviewed my grant and my paper? They don't know what they're talking about. And then I take a little bit more time and I say, well, maybe they have some good points here or there. And then it's like, you know what? I see now how I can fix this. I see what I need to do. And it's very exciting now because I'm I have a better sense of how to succeed.

Holly Wyatt:

So you switched into possibilities. You switched into possibilities and opportunities, which is part of the Voyager.

James Hill:

I don't feel sorry for myself very long. I clearly do it for a little while. But then I switch back and say, "Ok, I can take these reviews, these critiques. I can deal with them. I can turn it around and I can make a better product."

Holly Wyatt:

Yes, that's exactly it. And so the possibilities, the opportunities, you've totally turned around and taken something negative and made it something that's actually going to cause you to grow and to get better, which is what a voyager does. And Jim, you just kind of naturally do that. But if you're not someone who naturally does that, you can learn a process to do it.

James Hill:

Yes, yes. Good point. Okay, Holly, the key takeaways here. I have come to believe, I know, you know, I'm a big believer in the importance of nutrition absolutely, critically behind the idea of physical activity. But the more I learn about this, I think having a healthy mind state may be the biggest reason why people succeed versus why they fail. And we don't talk about that enough. If you look at programs and books and everything about weight and weight loss, You see a little about, yeah, you need to be resilient and this and that, but you don't see enough about mind state. I think mind state is the key to long-term success. And again, don't get me wrong, a healthy mind state isn't going to do it without a good nutrition plan and a good physical activity plan. But without the mind state, I don't think many people succeed at the nutrition and physical activity.

Holly Wyatt:

In the long term.

James Hill:

In the long term.

Holly Wyatt:

In the long term. So I totally agree with you. And I think the other thing to keep in mind is you can shift it. You can change it.

James Hill:

Absolutely.

Holly Wyatt:

And that's the exciting part because you're not stuck. You can build a stronger mind state and you can start actually feeling like you have a life that you want to live. It's something that you can create.

James Hill:

Even if you see yourself as a victim right now, you can totally turn that around.

Holly Wyatt:

Agree.

James Hill:

Hopefully, this episode has given you a new way to think about how you're approaching weight loss maintenance. We hope you'll take a minute to reflect on your own mind state and let us hear from you. Do you have more questions about mind state? Do you have examples of how you've changed your mind state? We would love to hear from you.

Holly Wyatt:

All right, guys. See you on the next episode.

James Hill:

Thanks, everybody. Bye. And that's a wrap for today's episode of Weight Loss And. We hope you enjoy diving into the world of weight loss with us.

Holly Wyatt:

If you want to stay connected and continue exploring the “Ands” of weight loss, be sure to follow our podcast on your favorite platform.

James Hill:

We'd also love to hear from you. Share your thoughts, questions, or topic suggestions by reaching out at [weightlossand.com](http://weightlossand.com/). Your feedback helps us tailor future episodes to your needs.

Holly Wyatt:

And remember, the journey doesn't end here. Keep applying the knowledge and strategies you've learned and embrace the power of the “And” in your own weight loss journey.