When The Scale Stops Moving

James Hill:
Welcome to Weight Loss And, where we delve into the world of weight loss. I'm Jim Hill.

Holly Wyatt:
And I'm Holly Wyatt. We're both dedicated to helping you lose weight, keep it off, and live your best life while you're doing it.

James Hill:
Indeed, we now realize successful weight loss combines the science and art of medicine, knowing what to do and why you will do it.

Holly Wyatt:
Yes, the “And” allows us to talk about all the other stuff that makes your journey so much bigger, better, and exciting.

James Hill:
Ready for the “And” factor?

Holly Wyatt:
Let's dive in.

James Hill:
Here we go.

Holly Wyatt:
Today, we're talking about something that everyone experiences when losing weight. And I say that with confidence. I think most people experience this, whether it's your first time or your 15th time. At some point, the scale stops moving.

James Hill:
It would be terrible if it didn't.

Holly Wyatt:
It really would. Everything was working. The scale was going down. And then suddenly you're like, it's not moving anymore. And that moment can feel frustrating. It can be confusing if you don't really understand what's going on.

James Hill:
And that's referred to as a weight loss plateau. We hear this from our people all the time. What happens when I hit a weight loss plateau? And the key is plateaus are normal. They're good. You want to reach weight loss plateaus. They happen to everyone. They do not mean the process is broken, and they do not mean that you have failed.

Holly Wyatt:
Exactly. So today, we're going to unpack that. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about what is a plateau. Let's define it. Let's talk some science this morning. Let's talk about why does it happen? What's going on in the body so that you understand it and how do you know if you've really hit a plateau? Because sometimes people think they're plateaued when they're not. And then we're going to talk about what you can do to move forward with confidence and especially don't give up. You don't need to give up during a plateau.

James Hill:
Yeah, and this will be fun because there is a lot of science here. We know a lot about weight loss plateaus, and I think sometimes we don't communicate that adequately. So it's going to be fun, Holly, to dive into a lot of good science here.

Holly Wyatt:
Let's kind of define what we mean by a plateau, because that's the other thing. People say it and they don't know exactly what at least we're talking about when we say a plateau. And Jim, I was going to ask you, I have my own definition we use in our programs. Is there a science definition for how long the wait has to stop before you call it a plateau?

James Hill:
I was just thinking that I don't think there's an agreeable definition of how long weight has to be stable. Everybody sort of has their own opinion. And for some people, that might be a couple of days, for other people, weeks. So, Holly, for the first time, we have the opportunity to define a weight loss plateau.

Holly Wyatt:
We can. And we've been doing it in our programs.

James Hill:
Right. Let's put it out there and say, this is a definition. Push back if you don't agree.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, you did that in the National Weight Control Registry about what weight loss maintenance looked like and things like that. Sometimes we can take a little liberty here and we can do that.

James Hill:
This is going to be a landmark podcast. We are defining weight loss plateaus.

Holly Wyatt:
All right. And there's no one on here to argue with us, so it'll be good.

James Hill:
That's right.

Holly Wyatt:
All right. So I've defined it when I see clients and patients as if their weight has been stable, and we'll talk about what stable means because no weight ever is perfectly the same weight every single morning. But if the weight has been relatively stable for two to three weeks, I don't like to call it a plateau until we've been through a two to three week period of time and we've gathered some data.

James Hill:
Okay, Holly, I can hear people out there saying two weeks, oh my God, two weeks of not losing weight. That's terrible.

Holly Wyatt:
Well, you got it. You need that much data because water, when you, when you, you could be still losing fat, but the body could be holding onto water for so many reasons. We know there's multiple reasons. And so it can mask, you could really be losing fat. It could be working and the body's holding onto some water. So you can't see it on the scale. So you don't want to call it a plateau and change and do something if the body's working when you don't need to yet. So that's why I like two to three weeks to really make sure we're in a plateau. Because if you're in a plateau, you're probably going to want to change something.

James Hill:
Yeah, I think this is a good time to bring out one of the themes that we bring out over and over and over. The way to approach weight management is long-term, not short-term. And in the long term, this is something that happens. It's okay to happen. There are ways to deal with it, but you have to look at the long term, not the short term.

Holly Wyatt:
Right. But I think also, Jim, make sure people realize that we're talking about plateaus happening in the weight loss phase, not the weight loss maintenance phase, because I really like people to think of those as separate. And after getting back from the Obesity Society meetings, I'm more than ever thinking that message needs to get out there that you don't think of it as one long continuous process. You think of it as a weight loss period of time, which is shorter than the weight loss maintenance. But you're right. It is a long, even weight loss is longer than a few weeks.

James Hill:
But Holly, when you hit a weight loss maintenance, does that mean that weight loss is over? It's time to go into maintenance? Or is it okay to lose some more weight?

Holly Wyatt:
You mean when you hit a weight loss plateau?

James Hill:
Yeah.

Holly Wyatt:
When you hit a weight loss plateau? We're going to talk about that. We're going to say, I think there's something you can do. But at some point, it might. We're going to get into what do you do about it.

James Hill:
Okay. Let's dig into the science here.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. But one thing I want to say, how do you know what is a plateau? I have people, you know, for two weeks, you're gathering data, you're getting weights every single day. And that's important because a lot of data you're going to need to be able to say, am I truly plateaued? And one of the things that we look at is we look at the averages. Is the average going down? If you only weigh once a week, you may not be able to have enough data. Maybe the one day you weigh, you're holding on to a few pounds of water and you're not really seeing the whole picture. And then the other thing we look at is each week, is there a new low? If you're hitting a new low each week, then you really are moving. If you only weigh episodically, once or twice a week, you can miss the new lows and you don't have enough data to look at the average to say, am I going down or not? So first you want to say, is my weight really stable? Do I have enough data to say it's stable? I think that's important because we are going to talk about some things to do, but you don't want to do them if you don't need to.

So I think of a plateau as like a long red light. Some people are like, oh my gosh, it hadn't moved in two days. I'm going to call it a plateau. No. It's where you're sitting at that stoplight and you're like looking around going, is there something wrong with the stoplight? Is it ever going to turn green? That's what I consider a plateau. It takes some data in some period of time before you can say that. All right, Jim, here's where you're going to shine, man. Science. The science behind why does a plateau happen?

James Hill:
Yeah, we know a lot about the answer to that question, Holly. So let's take someone starting weight loss and they have a larger body, so they need more energy because the amount of energy you require is directly related to your body size. And we've seen this over and over when you look at total energy expenditure, people who weigh more expend more energy. It's like a larger engine needs more fuel.

Holly Wyatt:
Sometimes that doesn't make sense. If you're struggling with your weight, you have a lower metabolism, meaning you don't burn as much energy.

James Hill:
That's really a myth that we need to put to bed here. A lot of people feel like, oh, part of my problem is I have a low energy expenditure. Holly, this has been looked at in thousands of people. And there's a direct correlation with your body size and your energy expenditure. So people who are overweight or obese do not have a lower energy expenditure. They have a higher energy expenditure than people who are lower weight. Okay?

Holly Wyatt:
All right.

James Hill:
So what happens then when you lose weight? Your body decreases, right?

Holly Wyatt:
Your body size decreases, your weight goes down.

James Hill:
Body size decreases, your weight goes down. What happens to your energy expenditure?

Holly Wyatt:
It goes down.

James Hill:
It goes down because now you have a smaller body that needs less energy. So part of the reason for a weight plateau is you're not staying the same during weight loss. You're decreasing your energy expenditure. So even if you keep food intake at the same level, you're going to slow weight loss because your energy expenditure is adjusting. So your body adjusts as you lose weight. And this is why things aren't smooth and linear as you lose weight. Your body is adjusting. The other way that your body adjusts, as you lose weight, your body sort of ramps up the hunger hormones. The body is telling itself, you know, I'm eating less. It seems like people have a tendency to sort of defend these higher weights. And the part of the way the body adapts is decreasing energy expenditure, increasing hormones that make you want to eat more.

Holly Wyatt:
Let's go back to one thing, though. So this first part where you're talking about the energy expenditure decreasing is appropriate because you're losing weight.

James Hill:
Absolutely. It's totally appropriate. And that's why if you are going into a weight loss program, you will not lose weight forever. If you're 100% compliant, you won't lose weight forever. That's a good thing. You will reach a point now where your new food intake and physical activity matches your energy expenditure. Okay? That's a natural sort of thing. It should happen.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. So it balances. And one thing I always tell people is think about it. You're walking a mile. And this happens if you keep your physical activity the same. Let's say you're doing an hour's worth of physical activity. But now you're 50 pounds less and you're walking the same amount, you know, three miles at 250 pounds. And then you walk three miles at 200 pounds. You're going to burn a different amount of energy. Still walking three miles. You think you're doing the same amount, you know, because you're walking three miles or you're doing 30 minutes or whatever. But now that you're smaller, it just doesn't take as much energy to move your body. For that long or for that distance. And so it's sneaky. You don't say, well, I'm moving my energy expenditure, I'm moving as much as I always have. But your body's smaller now.

James Hill:
Yeah. So as you lose weight, your body compensates. Lower energy expenditure, increasing your hormones to make you want to eat more. And it seems to be a little bit more efficient in how it works. So the bottom line is we can explain a large part of these weight loss plateaus by the body adjusting to your weight loss.

Holly Wyatt:
So I want to unpack that part a little bit. So there's the expected. I think of it as there's the expected decrease from the weight loss. And then there's this what people call adaptation, which I think of as it decreases more than expected. Your hormones for appetite maybe go up higher than you would think they would. There's some adaptation that's really maybe pushing you to try to stop losing weight because the body wouldn't want you to lose weight forever. But it's not what you would expect. It's a little bit more than what somebody else who's at your weight would experience that's not in the process of losing weight. Is that true? What do you think about that?

James Hill:
Holly, this is a hotly debated topic in the field, some people call it adaptive thermogenesis, okay? So you lose weight. If I know your body weight and your energy expenditure, I can sort of predict what would happen. Some people say there's more decrease than you would expect from even if I knew your body weight and your lean body mass and so forth. But this is a tough one because it's so complex. You mentioned before physical activity. After you lose weight, if you're doing the same amount of physical activity, you're burning fewer calories because you have a smaller body weight. So what I believe is that most of this decrease in energy expenditure is explainable through your change in body weight. Whether there's a little bit more that's adaptive, I don't know the answer to that. But I think the major part is totally expected with your change in body weight.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, I agree. We used to study this. This is what I used to study when I started. All these kind of changes and are they what you would expect versus greater than you would expect? I think it's there. I now think there's enough data. We've looked at it enough, but it's small. It's very small. And it doesn't seem in the studies that I've looked at to predict who regains weight. So what that means to me, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I think it does exist. I think it does happen. Maybe some more in some individuals than other, but it's not a big player. There's other players that are kind of causing the regain or causing the plateau that have a bigger impact than these adaptations that we call these greater than expected changes in energy expenditure or in some of the hormones.

James Hill:
And Holly, this is a chance I'm going to take to illustrate my favorite point, and that is physical activity. So if the energy expenditure changes are due to your decrease in body weight, the one thing that's under voluntary control is the amount of physical activity you do. You can't control how much your energy expenditure decreases due to your decrease in body size. But what you have control over is how much energy expenditure you exert in physical activity.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. So I'm going to put you on the spot, Jim, because I don't know if we know the answer to this question. But do you think physical activity, I know it increases energy expenditure, but do you think if it keeps adaptations from happening. Do you think it impacts whether you have those additional reductions or not? Or do we not know that?

James Hill:
Well, again, this whole issue is so controversial because it's hard to measure, and there haven't been enough studies on this. I'm skeptical of that. I don't know the answer to it, and I don't think the field knows the answer to it. I think you and I have talked about this before, Holly. When we look at the role of physical activity, I think we're looking in the wrong place. And again, we've done this before. I don't think it's an energy expenditure. I think it's in how your metabolism works to allow you to adjust to periods like overfeeding and so forth. Metabolic flexibility. That's where I think physical activity is really playing a role. If it plays a role in adaptive thermogenesis, I think it's small.

Holly Wyatt:
Okay. All right. So I know one of the questions I've been getting is, you know, in the past, we've talked about weight loss usually occurs over three to six months. And then we look in the data and most people plateau, the weight loss stops around the three to six month mark. But with the GLP-1 meds, the new appetite-lowering medications, the plateau has kind of been pushed out.

James Hill:
It's amazing, Holly, because usually in behavioral programs, we see that plateau somewhere between three and six months. With the medications, that can be a year, maybe even in some cases, two years, which is totally amazing.

Holly Wyatt:
But I want to put out, the plateau happens. It still happens at some point. It just may be a longer, you have a longer period of being able to lose weight. And that kind of makes sense because you have a drug on board that's really pushed those appetite hormones down and that food intake isn't having the stimulus to increase, which I think happens as you lose weight. Your body produces some hormones that say, you should eat a little bit more. You should go out and look for some food. You're going to, you know, you're losing weight. If this keeps up, this isn't a good thing. But if you've got the GLP-1 medications on board, I think you keep that energy intake low because the hormones can't, some of the major hormones do not go up. The GLP-1 is really sitting on those receptors, keeping you from wanting to go out and eat more.

James Hill:
And that suggests, Holly, that without the GLP-1 meds, the plateau may be due to this creep backup of energy intake. Because when you stop that, you delay the plateau.

Holly Wyatt:
That's true. That gives us a little insight probably into what's going on, which is important because when we talk about a plateau, that may be what's happening. Your energy intake is started to creep back up.

James Hill:
So this brings up another point I want to make, Holly, on people that are starting the medications. Anybody that's starting the medications needs to think about their long-term plan. And I know when you go on these medications, you want to lose weight. Well, guess what? You're going, most people are going to lose weight on the medications. Think about long-term. If you keep taking the medications, you will not lose weight indefinitely. Even on the medications, it may be a year or two years, you're going to reach a point where now you've adjusted, your weight is going to stay the same, even though you're taking the meds. And the data suggests that if you continue taking the meds, you may be effective at keeping the weight off, but you're probably not going to lose anymore.

Holly Wyatt:
Right. And that means the meds are still working.

James Hill:
Yes.

Holly Wyatt:
It's not that when your weight loss stops, it means my GLP-1 med is no longer working. It just means it's the natural point now where the meds have had an impact and now you're in a plateau and that's it working. That makes sense.

James Hill:
Absolutely. And that's what you want to maintain.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. So good stuff. So let me just review what a true plateau. I want us to move now. What can you do? Because I know that's what the listeners are like. Okay, this is all good. I understand it, but I don't like it. I want to try to push past it or bust a plateau. But let's make sure. This is how I think of it, Jim. I have cards, like cards you play in a game. And when someone's in a plateau, I'm going to play a card. Or we're going to suggest playing a card. But I don't want to play a card before I need a card because there's only so many cards. And at some point, a plateau, you may need to go into weight loss maintenance. So I don't want to play a card early. I want to play a card when you really need it. So I always have, okay, let's make sure you're in a plateau before we change something because I only have so many cards to play. So what I consider a plateau before I would change anything or look to modify something to get the weight loss going again is are you truly weight stable in a plateau, weight not moving for two to three weeks.

I would make sure I'm gathering daily weights and looking, is my averages staying the same if they're not going down for each week? Have I had no new lows each week? Do I not see a trend in my lows? And then I would look and say, is there anything unusual going on that might be really having me hold on to a lot of water? Have I been traveling? Am I on a new medication? Am I under a lot of stress? Are there a big hormonal shift for me of some type? Has my sleep changed? All those things can really cause you to hold on to water. And you know, Jim, it's easy to hold on to three four five even six pounds of water which really could mask the weight loss that could be occurring. When I say weight loss the fat loss that could be occurring over the last two to three weeks and you could be burning fat but you don't see it on the scale if water is also being kind of held on to while you're losing that fat. So that's why I say let's really make sure it's a plateau and if you have the data and you truly think your weight is stuck, then you can come out and we can start to talk about what things you could do.

James Hill:
So in thinking about a plateau, Holly, in some ways you want to reach a plateau and then maintain that weight. But what we're talking about is people that want to lose more weight. They want to get through the plateau and lose more weight. And that's where I think they can play some of these cards.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. So the reason I came up with this is before the GLP-1s, very few people lost enough weight. They wanted to lose more. So they were always coming to me and saying, “Okay, I've lost.” I'd say, “Oh, you've lost, 8% or 10%.” And they're like, “Yes.” And the weight has stopped. But they're like, “No, no, no, I need more.” With the GLP-1s, people on that may not be needing this as much. But people who aren't on the GLP-1s, sometimes you want to, “I want to get as much weight off as I can and then go into weight loss maintenance.”

James Hill:
Yep. So what are the cards that people can play, Holly?

Holly Wyatt:
So I think of three categories. I first think of food cards, nutrition cards, things I can do with what you're eating. And what we just talked about, I think, is really interesting because probably what's going on for most people (and this is why I start with the food cards) is their energy intake has creeped up. Just what you said, the GLP-1 meds show us that.

James Hill:
Yeah.

Holly Wyatt:
You may not realize it. You may not recognize it. You may be trying to adhere to your dietary plan that restricts calories, but it's getting harder. Some hunger hormones. Things have happened that are making it harder. So I always say if we want to get the weight loss going again, we may need to kind of be strict again. We need to look at what you're eating and restrict it a little bit, see if we can do some additional things that can help decrease that energy intake a little bit because it might have creeped up a little bit.

James Hill:
I think that's probably the most frequent cause of the plateaus is that creep in food intake. And I think that's why maybe looking at a food card first makes sense for a lot of people.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, I think that's what the majority and they don't realize it. And that's the hard part. “No, no, no, I'm sticking.” And you are, but it's hard to really be aware of exactly how many calories you're eating. It's just very difficult.

James Hill:
Easy for food intake to creep up a little bit and you don't even realize it.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, and they'll tell me, no way. And I'm like, oh, if I was betting in Vegas, I would still bet on this. So one of the first things I do is if you have stopped logging your food is I have them go back and start logging their food. And sometimes just logging the food is enough to bring down that food intake if there's been a drift. You know, it's kind of been drifted up.

James Hill:
Makes you aware, right?

Holly Wyatt:
Makes you aware. So I go back to food logging. They need to keep a food log and measure portions because that can be the other drift.

James Hill:
That's another thing that can creep up without knowing it. You just have a little bit higher portion. You eat more. You think you're eating the same, but it's a little bit of intake creep.

Holly Wyatt:
So if you're in a plateau, the first card I would play is log your meals, log your food, be very specific, look at portions and see if you can see places maybe intake is increased or just by doing that, you may decrease that intake and the scale may start moving again. So that is the first card. The second card I like to play in nutrition, and this is a favorite one of mine, is let's simplify the meals. Sometimes when I see people, they've been in weight loss for a while and now they have these kind of lots of pieces and, you know, lots of different foods. And it's very kind of complex. And I'm like, you know what, if we want to get the weight going again, let's simplify. Because every time you add food, so you have multiple foods in one meal, there's a place you could make a mistake. I say mistake. You could be eating more calories than you think. And so I say, let's simplify. Let's go back and make sure we really know what we're eating and how many calories we're eating. So that's a card you can play is, okay, let me take some of the complexity out of my food choices. The third card I like to play in the nutrition is let's do some meal replacement.

James Hill:
Yeah, there's a lot of science there, Holly, to suggest the meal replacements can be a helpful tool to get through plateaus.

Holly Wyatt:
And I don't make people go to all meal replacements because that's not, but I pick one meal. I say, okay, let's just pick one meal. Let's go for a meal replacement can be a frozen entree. I give them a calorie kind of count and a protein gram target and say, for this one meal, let's try to go to a frozen entree so we know exactly what you're getting in that meal. And that sometimes can break a plateau. So that's a good card to try. And if I was picking a frozen entree, I would make it less than 500 calories, make sure it has good protein. You can look at that, but pick something that you know for sure what you're getting when you eat it. And then can you guess what my last card that I'm going to talk about for the food is? Because this is something I talk about all the time.

James Hill:
Oh, I think it has to do with volume and energy density.

Holly Wyatt:
Yes, exactly. Because I know I'm a volume eater. And I think when I lose weight, some of the hormones that want me to eat more increase, like we talked about. And the way for me to push back against that increase in appetite hormones is for me to increase the volume and decrease the energy density of the food. So I have people start adding a bag of frozen vegetables to their dinner meal and really trying to increase the fiber, increase the volume, decrease the calories, but give you that satisfaction by having a large volume.

James Hill:
Good strategy. So those are cards that you can play when you reach a plateau.

Holly Wyatt:
So let's move to the physical activity, the movement cards. I bet you can talk about some of these. So, nutrition I hit first, but then if I've hit some of those nutrition cards, or if I really don't think nutrition is the issue, I will play a physical activity card.

James Hill:
People tend to overlook physical activity. They say, well, it isn't burning that many calories. It's probably on the food side. And it may be on the food side, but don't minimize the importance of physical activity. If you reach a plateau, take a look at are you sticking to your physical activity goals? Just like you get creep in food intake going up, you get creep in physical activity going down. Are you cutting your workouts a little short? Are you doing fewer minutes? This can make a big difference because physical activity burns calories, but it also feeds back and influences your appetite and your metabolism.

Holly Wyatt:
Exactly. So I guess a log, again, are you logging? Are you aware of how many steps you're doing? Are you aware of how many minutes?

James Hill:
That's right. Pay attention to what you're doing. And if you feel like you're meeting your activity goals, you need to change something up. Maybe add a little intensity. One of the things that we found in working with a lot of people over the years is sometimes just shaking up a routine can have an effect. You can do this with physical activity. You increase your intensity. So take a workout and go a little harder, change the type of activities. Maybe you're doing all cardio. Add some resistance or different types of cardio. Change it up. Change the timing. If you're a morning exerciser, change. Go to the afternoon. This idea of shaking things up, sometimes we find that it's very, very helpful for people. And the other thing too is ramp it up. Even if you're meeting your goals and you're reaching a plateau, ramp it up a little bit to see if that helps you get through the plateau.

Holly Wyatt:
If you've been doing the same activity the whole time, I think the body adjusts to it. The body's really good at adjusting and getting used to things.

James Hill:
We pay attention to change in the body. And if you get into these things without any change, the body, it almost kind of gets efficient and into a routine. And if you shake it up sometimes, you know, we found that years ago with the study in breakfast, we found that people that switch, whether you did or didn't eat breakfast, just switching to the other one made a difference in weight loss.

Holly Wyatt:
Oh my gosh, I didn't remember that. And I think that's the whole kind of principle. What you've been doing, the body's gotten used to, you're plateaued, let's switch it up. And the activity's the same, let's go a little bit higher intensity. Let's do a little bit different activity, use different muscle groups. Let's do it at a different time. Let's just get the body to say, whoa, this is a little bit different. And sometimes that will unstick you. That will allow that plateau for you to start losing again.

James Hill:
[28:49] Change something. For whatever reason, if you're doing the same thing and you're stuck, change. Try something different. See what works.

Holly Wyatt:
All right. My last set of cards that I like to play are just kind of dinner. I call them strategy cards. So we've worked on nutrition, we talked about physical activity, but just kind of strategy. And sometimes what this means is it may be time to switch to weight loss maintenance, Jim.

James Hill:
Ah, so you might just say, let's just keep this plateau and keep the new weight.

Holly Wyatt:
Well, I'll ask them, how long have you been in weight loss? How long have you been trying to lose weight? Now they'll say, well, my weight hasn't been going down. I'm like, no, no, no. How long have you been trying to lose weight? We don't define this by the scale. I define this as you're trying to lose weight. You're doing the strategies that are associated with weight loss and the scale isn't going down. So it's not working. You're in a plateau in a sense, but how long have you been doing it? Somebody's like, oh, three years. I'm like, okay. All right. Let me tell you what we're going to do here. You know what we need to do here. We need to give your body a little rest. We need to go into weight loss maintenance. We need to move and do the the strategies that are associated with weight loss maintenance, which are different than the strategies that we do for weight loss.

James Hill:
It's what we've preached over and over. Weight loss is different from weight loss maintenance. So it doesn't mean you can't come back later on and try to lose weight. It's just that your body needs a break.

Holly Wyatt:
And the reason I think this is important to realize this and play this card is because sometimes people try to stay in weight loss and they keep trying and trying and trying and trying, and the scale isn't moving. They get frustrated. They think it's not working. And guess what they do, Jim?

James Hill:
What?

Holly Wyatt:
They give up. They stop doing anything, and they regain the weight.

James Hill:
They have the wrong mind state, Holly.

Holly Wyatt:
And they don't understand. I think that what they're doing for weight loss, they can't do forever. We know that there's a period of time where weight loss works, and then we need to move into weight loss maintenance. But what I tell them and what they also need to understand is you can stay in weight loss maintenance and then at a future point in time, go back into weight loss. So I'm not saying you can never lose more weight.

James Hill:
And if you do that, you're probably going to be more effective at getting weight off when you go back into weight loss now that your body's adjusted a little bit to your new weight.

Holly Wyatt:
Right. You're going to change it up again. You're going to give it a time where you're going to be doing the weight loss maintenance strategies. And then when you shift back into the weight loss, it's going to be a change again.

James Hill:
Yes.

Holly Wyatt:
And the body is going to go back into weight loss.

James Hill:
We're back to that change theme.

Holly Wyatt:
Yes.

James Hill:
When you do the same thing over and over, your body adjusts, it becomes efficient. Shake it up every now and then.

Holly Wyatt:
Now, people always ask me, and I always say we don't have great data for this. So maybe, Jim, you know, but how long do they need to stay in weight loss maintenance before they can go back into weight loss and lose some more?

James Hill:
I don't think we have any data on that. And you and I have talked about this. If I had to pick a number, and this is totally without any scientific evidence to back it up, I would say at least six months.

Holly Wyatt:
Really? People don't want to hear that, Jim. I'm just going to tell you that right now. So I agree with you. I don't think we have good data. Kind of what I tell them is when they feel like they can really hit weight loss hard, that they can go back and really restrict their calories, which we know is required for weight loss. And I say I like to give them at least a couple months. I think you're right. I think six months would be probably the bit, but I can't tell them that.

James Hill:
Even two months is probably going to be helpful.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah.

James Hill:
And then if you're really anxious, go back and try it again. Think about six months in the scheme of things. It's in a long time. It gives your body a chance to adjust to your new weight and everything. And then I think when you go back to weight loss, you're likely going to be more effective.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. So one of the strategy cards is, okay, go into weight loss maintenance, be very strategic about it. There's strategies you use. We've talked about them on this show many, many times. Our new book coming out, Losing the Weight Loss Meds really talks about weight loss maintenance strategies. Do those strategies for six months and then go back into weight loss.

James Hill:
Yes.

Holly Wyatt:
Other strategy, though, that I've used and I figured this out just by accident, really, and I've done this with myself, too, is people really like, no, I have to lose weight. I need to lose weight. And we've played all the other cards, and the scale isn't moving. Then I say, okay, let's go on a vacation.

James Hill:
I like it.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, go on a vacation, which means I want you to eat what you want. If you can exercise, I think it's a good thing, but really just eat what you want. I say a vacation for one to two weeks, and then we're going to come back and really hit the weight loss hard. And sometimes that one to two week period is enough time, I think, for the body to kind of, once again, what are we doing? We're changing it up.

James Hill:
You're shaking it up. You're changing things.

Holly Wyatt:
And while you're on vacation, I wouldn't say, let's not try to eat everything, but let's eat what we want to.

James Hill:
Relax a little bit and have fun and take a one to two week break and then come back and hit it hard.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, and the scale will go up. The scale will go up in those two weeks. Most of that's water. The scale always goes back up. And then when we come back, a lot of times they'll lose the water plus a few more pounds.

James Hill:
Yes.

Holly Wyatt:
So the vacation, that's a card we can play if people are really like, I've got to lose more weight. I sometimes play the vacation card. The key with that card though is you're on vacation for one to two weeks. It's a set period of time. And then you come back. If you stay on vacation for a long period of time, you're going to regain the weight. It's going to come back. So it's a two-week max period of time for a vacation. And then back to the strategies required for weight loss.

James Hill:
So we've given people a lot of cards, a lot of tools. And these aren't panic buttons. These are simply tools to move forward. The plateau is expected. It's normal. Don't freak out. Don't panic. Try some of these tools to see if you can get through it.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. All right. I think we have a couple listener questions we can do that fit with this. So one of the questions I get a lot is, so you have these cards. It's similar kind of to the plays like we talk about in our book, right? You get to choose. How do you know which card to play first? How do you know which card you should try? I usually like to start with a nutrition card because I think that's most likely to be the problem. But you could also say, choose the card that you think you can do consistently. You can say which card kind of fits you. But I also say, I would tell people, go with a nutrition card first. What do you think?

James Hill:
Most of the time, it's going to be that food intake creep that's causing the problem.

Holly Wyatt:
A little trial and error because it is individual. If I feel like from the log, I can see that nutrition's the issue or from the physical activity tracker or log, I can see that physical activity's the problem. I might gear toward a physical activity card versus a food or nutrition card. But if I can't really tell, then I'm going to go with nutrition first. But it is a little trial and error because…

James Hill:
You have some choices. You can try the different cards.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, I like that.

James Hill:
All right, here's one. I like this one. What do I do with the frustration that comes from a plateau? That's a good term, frustration, because we see that. People are so frustrated. Holly. I've worked so hard. I'm doing everything right, and I still plateau. I'm so frustrated. Number one, realize that plateaus are normal. Everybody hits it. And then try to switch from the emotion, frustration, to action. We've given you some cards to play. So, calm yourself. This is expected. It's going to happen. Don't be frustrated. Start using your cards to take some action.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, I think the key is this is normal. Because the mind state so many people get into is it's not working. It is working. It's working normally. This is normal. All right. I understand what's going on. Here's what I can do. That feels good. Right? That moves you out of the frustration. That action, like you talked about, moves you out of frustration. And then understanding the science behind a plateau really helps you get there.

James Hill:
You reach a plateau and you say, “Okay, I have the tools. I know what to do. I can develop a strategy going forward. I'm in charge. I have the ability to get through this.”

Holly Wyatt:
It feels good to have a next step to try.

James Hill:
Yes.

Holly Wyatt:
That's really what I think it's about. And then one more question we have down here. What if I break the plateau and then hit another one later? I say, yes, you will.

James Hill:
That's good, right? You want to do that.

Holly Wyatt:
You're not going to lose weight forever. You're going to break the plateau and you will lose a certain amount of weight from the card you played and then you will plateau again. And then you can play another card and see what happens. And then if you've played cards and you're still plateaued, what does that mean? Weight loss maintenance. It might be time when you get the final, right? Go into it for a period of time and then go back into weight loss.

James Hill:
I love it. All right, Holly, I got one question for you. I'm curious.

Holly Wyatt:
Okay.

James Hill:
Have you ever hit a weight loss plateau or is your experience with plateaus mostly through the people you've coached?

Holly Wyatt:
I have hit a weight loss plateau more times than I can talk about. I've helped a lot of people with weight loss plateaus, but I've also really learned a lot from myself. Yes. And I think if you are someone who struggled with your weight and you've lost weight and regained weight and managed your weight your whole life like I have, you hit plateaus. That's part of it, Jim. Yes.

James Hill:
Well, if Holly hits them, I mean, come on.

Holly Wyatt:
I hit them all the time.

James Hill:
All right. So this has been a good episode. Plateaus are not the end of progress. They're a normal part of how the body adapts to weight loss. When the scale pauses, it's your body stabilizing. It's recalculating. It's preparing for your next phase. You don't break a plateau by pushing harder. You break it by making these small intentional shifts. Confirm the pattern. Make sure you have a weight loss plateau. Then choose one of the cards to play.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. Take action. Don't get frustrated. Understand what's going on. It should feel good. I know what's going on. I have some things I can do. All right, Jim, this has been a great episode.

James Hill:
I like this. We got a lot of good science in. I like that part.

Holly Wyatt:
And I think we got some helpful things out there people can recognize. So guys, thanks for joining us on Weight Loss And When The Scale Stops Moving. I think that's what we're going to call this episode.

James Hill:
Yeah.

Holly Wyatt:
If you're in a plateau right now, remember, nothing is wrong. It's part of the process. Learn to deal with it. You have the skills that you need.

James Hill:
Stay curious. Choose your next move with intention. And join us on Weight Loss And for our next podcast.

Holly Wyatt:
Bye, everybody.

James Hill:
And that's a wrap for today's episode of Weight Loss And. We hope you enjoy diving into the world of weight loss with us.

Holly Wyatt:
If you want to stay connected and continue exploring the “Ands” of weight loss, be sure to follow our podcast on your favorite platform.

James Hill:
We'd also love to hear from you. Share your thoughts, questions, or topic suggestions by reaching out at weightlossand.com. Your feedback helps us tailor future episodes to your needs.

Holly Wyatt:
And remember, the journey doesn't end here. Keep applying the knowledge and strategies you've learned and embrace the power of the “And” in your own weight loss journey.