How to Thrive on a Vegan Diet Without Gaining Weight with Daphne Bascom

James Hill:
Welcome to Weight Loss And, where we delve into the world of weight loss. I'm Jim Hill.

Holly Wyatt:
And I'm Holly Wyatt. We're both dedicated to helping you lose weight, keep it off, and live your best life while you're doing it.

James Hill:
Indeed, we now realize successful weight loss combines the science and art of medicine, knowing what to do and why you will do it.

Holly Wyatt:
Yes, the “And” allows us to talk about all the other stuff that makes your journey so much bigger, better, and exciting.

James Hill:
Ready for the “And” factor?

Holly Wyatt:
Let's dive in.

James Hill:
Here we go.

Holly Wyatt:
Jim, we hear from a lot of listeners who follow or are interested maybe in following vegan or plant-based diets. Many chose that path for health reasons, for ethical reasons, for environmental reasons. But some of them, they're a little bit frustrated. They're doing what they believe is right. They're following the diet, and yet they're struggling with their weight.

James Hill:
Yeah, and you know, that catches people off guard because the dominant message out there is if you eat plant-based, you're automatically going to lose weight, become healthier. Weight management is just real easy.

Holly Wyatt:
But that's not always what happens. Some people do thrive on vegan diets. Others gain weight. And I think some people just feel stuck trying to stay true to their values for the reason maybe they started eating that and then also taking care of their health, taking care of their weight.

James Hill:
Well, Holly, lucky for you, that's what we're diving into today. What actually matters for weight management when you're eating plant-based, and why the same principles of appetite, metabolism, and behavior still apply, even when animal products are off the table.

James Hill:
And to help us unpack this, we're joined by Dr. Daphne Bascom. Daphne is an MD and PhD with extensive experience across clinical medicine, population health, and lifestyle-based interventions. She's currently the Chief Operating Officer of The Vegan Gym, where she helps people use plant-forward nutrition as part of a whole-person, science-based approach to health and weight. What makes Daphne especially valuable for this conversation is her balance. She understands the ethical and value-driven side of plant-based eating, but she's also very clear-eyed about biology. She doesn't pretend that being vegan automatically makes weight management easy, and she helps people bridge the gap between values and results.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, Daphne brings a rare combination. And I was looking at your CV and I was like, so impressed. You've done so much. She has this combination of medical training, systems level leadership in different places, real world coaching experience, like you've done it all. And we're really excited to have this honest, practical conversation today.

James Hill:
Daphne, welcome to Weight Loss And. We're glad you're here.

Daphne Bascom:
Well, thank you both so much. I'm excited to be here and join you today.

Holly Wyatt:
All right, let's get started. The question that so many people ask, and I really want us to be able to unpack today, is kind of the idea that eating plant-based doesn't automatically mean weight loss or prevention of weight gain or prevention of weight regain. And so can you help us with that? Why is that the case? And how do you handle that when people are saying, “Well, I thought eating vegan would solve that problem for me.”

Daphne Bascom:
Holly, that's a great question. And thank you for your kind introduction, both of you. I have been fortunate to do a lot of things in my life. And becoming vegan was one of those things that I did late in life. So I was an omnivore for many years. And I, too, struggled with my weight. I think it was when I turned 40, and there were many life things that were happening, that I really doubled down on trying to figure out how do I get healthier? Being plant-based, being vegan is not a free pass to overcoming overweight or obesity. The laws of thermodynamics still apply and I think what we have developed is an approach that helps people understand how to fuel your body, how to move your body, but then also looking at all of the other things that both of you talk about in terms of your mind state, your sleep, your stress, because losing, and I don't like to use the word losing weight, body recomposition and fat loss. It is not easy whether you are an omnivore, whether you're plant positive or whether you're fully vegan. You still need to focus on the principles related to nutrition and movement. And one thing that we actually talk a lot about or something I propose to women in our menopause program is that let's reframe it. I don't want you to think about what you're giving up. And also, when you think about your body, why don't we think about it as not that we're over fat, but we're under-muscled. So how do we fuel our body to gain or retain the lean mass that's going to be so important to help us achieve those body recomposition goals and stay healthy for the long term?

James Hill:
Holly, she's singing our song there that it's not what you give up, it's what you gain.

Holly Wyatt:
I do. And just to be fair, we were on your podcast. We had such a great conversation. We were like, you have to be on our podcast because we do align in so many areas. And I have to be honest, I was shocked that we would align in so many areas. So I'm, you know, I learn stuff all the time.

James Hill:
So we're being educated here too, Holly.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, no, I mean, I was like, wow, I honestly didn't think someone that was, you know, I've had a lot of people who are vegan that are very much like it's vegan or no, there's no other way. And we believe that there's many diets for success and many diets different times in your life, different diets achieve different goals and for different reasons. And so I was so happy that you also kind of embraced that too and that it's not just about nutrition. There's a lot of other stuff that go with it.

Daphne Bascom:
Absolutely.

Holly Wyatt:
So to break it down for our listeners a little bit, what do you see are the key difference between your vegan clients who struggle with their weight and your vegan clients who don't.

Daphne Bascom:
I would say it's the same that you find in your patients that are omnivores. So The Vegan Gym is a vegan health and fitness coaching program. We have a team of 18 vegan health coaches, and we coach people on a principle that we call the plant-powered blueprint, which is a combination of seven elements. Most people come into our program looking for body recomposition, so weight loss. They want to lose anywhere from 10 to 50 plus pounds. And not all of them are vegan when they come in. Some are moving toward a more plant-forward plate. Some have been vegan for 10, 15, 20 years, and they're still struggling with their weight. So we start from first principles, just like you do, and understand what are you eating because it's easy, I find, for people who think because it's plant-based, it's automatically healthy. And that is not the case, especially now that there are so many, I'll call them transition foods, they're vegan or plant-based, but they are potentially as unhealthy.

Daphne Bascom:
As anything else that you can pick up in the middle of the grocery store. And you can be an Oreo and plant vegan, which still isn't healthy. So I think what differs between those that are successful and those that struggle is understanding how they're fueling their body, how they need to move in order to help meet their fat loss goals, and then doing a deep dive on all of the other factors that potentially can impact achieving their body composition goals. But having coached omnivores and coached vegans, I don't see them as any different.

James Hill:
I love that. We always get the question, Daphne, of is it possible to follow your program if I'm a vegan or a vegetarian? And we've always felt like it is because the principles are the same. And I want to dive into each of those, but let's start with the diet side. One of the things I always hear is, if you're a vegan, it's so much harder to get adequate protein. Is that true?

Daphne Bascom:
No, it's not true. There is that misconception. And I know you had Dr. Stuart Phillips on your podcast this summer when I was, and it's so heartwarming to see how some of the science and some of the leaders in this field are also changing. I think that the historic perception about the availability of plant-based proteins, about the digestibility of plant-based proteins, and about the quality of plant-based proteins, that's been perpetuated for many years. And I felt like we started breaking that misconception when they released the movie Game Changers. And you saw all of these top-level athletes, whether they're football players or the strongest man in the world like Patrik Baboumian demonstrating that you can perform at a high level, feeding your body on plants. And now we're seeing leaders in nutrition science and exercise science like Dr. Phillips also supporting the fact that if you are intentionally fueling your body with a quarter of your plate being protein, a quarter of your plate being grains and fats, and half of your plate being those beautiful, rich vegetables, you will be able to achieve your body composition goals. And the quality is about the same.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, yeah. So I love this. Now I'm going to take it and take it from kind of pie in the sky. What we call pie in the sky to pie in the plate. Tell us, what are the best plant-based protein sources for weight management specifically? That quarter of your plate you were talking about, what does that mean for someone who maybe isn't in that world but would maybe want to be?

Daphne Bascom:
Great question, Holly. And first is the ones you will eat. So I'm thinking tofu, tempeh, if you don't have a gluten sensitivity, seitan, your lentils. We have a registered dietitian nutritionist on our team. And so one of the first things we try and do is make sure we understand any nutritional sensitivities. If you are soy free, if you are gluten free, and take those into account. But even if you're soy-free, they now have, you can make a type of tofu from lentils. You can, and you can buy, you can purchase them in the store, a company called Big Foods. So we try and provide everyone with a foundation of here are your options for plant-based proteins, whether they're soy-based or not soy-based, if they're gluten-free or not gluten-free. And then the second piece to that is making sure it's something that you enjoy. Because this has to be something that you're able to sustain for life. The other thing that frequently comes up are supplements. And I'm putting air quotes (because I know this is audio only) because we are food first, always.

Daphne Bascom:
If your protein goals, for example, are trying to get 30 grams of protein per meal, so maybe aiming for 90 to 100 grams of protein a day, there may be some people that struggle to do that with food only, and that's when we will encourage them to look for a clean plant-based protein supplement.

Daphne Bascom:
But there are many clients in our program that don't supplement at all, and they're still able to meet their protein goals.

James Hill:
I think it's never been easier to find wonderful products for whatever diet you're following, but you have to be a little bit knowledgeable. So, you know, I go in the grocery store and I see plant-based burgers and cheese and ice cream and everything. How do you know the right products to pick and the ones to avoid?

Daphne Bascom:
Oh, Jim, that's a loaded question, because I hate to vilify any one food. As part of our program, we actually are an academy. And so we don't just have clients coming in and we give them nutrition and training programs. We actually have two meetings a week. We have the master classes. And so we provide everyone who comes into the program with guidance on how to shop, how to cook, how to read a food label. Because I think in part what you're asking is, how do I first shop the perimeter and look for all of the healthy foods that tend to be on the perimeter? But then if I'm going into the middle of the grocery store and I'm looking at the Beyond Meat or I'm looking at the plant-based ice creams, which there's a lot, do I want one that's going to be high in saturated fat? How am I gauging the quality of the food, not just the fact that it's plant-based? Because many of these alternative meat products and many of the plant-based yogurts, plant-based ice creams, their base is either coconut milk, soy milk, almond milk, and they can have a high fat and sugar content. So we focus a lot on helping people learn how to read labels.

James Hill:
Yeah, you mentioned saturated fat. I wanted to bring up the fats because sometimes people get so concerned about carbs and protein, they forget that fats bring in a lot of calories in the diet, whether it's something you cook with or, you know, one of my favorite nuts, but you can overdo it. How do you counsel people around managing not getting too much fat in their diet.

Daphne Bascom:
That's another great question because it's easy especially if you like things like avocados and nuts. So we talk a lot about energy density and we focus on you want foods that are low in energy density. And that's not just your celery and your romaine lettuce, but your red peppers and your green peppers and your broccoli and your cauliflower. Those are all low energy density foods.

James Hill:
We love that concept. We preach energy density all the time, Daphne. I think it's simple, but I think it's one of the most important concepts to help manage your appetite. And so just because you're vegan doesn't mean you're automatically going to get the low energy density foods.

Daphne Bascom:
100%. And even the healthy ones, eating a whole avocado a day may not be in your best interest if you are trying to lose fat. I know I have a problem with nuts. I can't buy a whole bag of nuts because they will be gone.

Holly Wyatt:
Me and you. We're in that together.

Daphne Bascom:
So trying to encourage people to have variety and get those 30 different varieties of plants. But if you're going to have some walnuts, crumble them up, sprinkle them on your salad. Don't have the bag next to you while you're working and just kind of mindlessly eat.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. So one thing that we have in our new book, Losing the Weight Loss Meds, is we do talk about one of our foundational plays that not everybody has to do, but it's a possibility, is eating more plant-based foods and trying to get at least 20 plant-based foods in a day. And so I heard you say that. I'm like, here we are aligned in that way. And I know it also sounds like you're very much about individualizing the program. And that's sometimes why these questions are hard, because it really depends on that individual person and what they need to be successful, which I think we're in agreement on that. But if you're counseling someone maybe in general about weight loss versus weight loss maintenance, what would be different about the meal structure in a plant-based diet, if anything?

Daphne Bascom:
Holly, I don't think it is very different. I loved your book. I appreciated having you on our podcast because I agree with you. Weight, we can all lose weight. We have clients that lose weight and lose the same weight 10 or 20 times.

Daphne Bascom:
One of the things that I think is different about our program is we don't bring people in and just say, you're going to lose weight forever. We bring them in for a period of time. They have a weight loss phase, and then we try and help them also have a maintenance phase while they're with us so that you can learn how to liberalize what you're eating and be mindful of what you're eating, but do it with guardrails. I think maintenance isn't all of a sudden I just go back to doing what I used to do. I still need to be cognizant of my energy density of my movement of not eating a bag of pistachios because they're sitting on the counter. And we try and counsel our clients to help them understand that this is not a restriction for life. This is, you lose, you achieve your goals, and then you learn how to navigate eating out, eating with family, eating at work, continue to align it so that you don't have those periods of I've put back on the 20 pounds. And then also continuing to track because it's very easy to think I'm in maintenance and maintenance, you start to creep on one pound, two pound, five pound, 10 pound. So having those checkpoints to say, “Okay, I've liberalized a little bit too much. Let me go back to making sure I'm focused on fueling with the things that I know are supporting my goals.”

James Hill:
I love it, Holly, because we're busting some myths here in this podcast about vegans.

James Hill:
And you brought up one thing that I want to let you elaborate on some more. One of the other things I hear out there is, “Well, if you're vegan, it's so hard to eat out and it's hard to travel and social situations.” How do you help people sort of address those issues?

Daphne Bascom:
Planning is important for anyone. If you are traveling while you are on a fat loss journey, you need to plan regardless of whether you're an omnivore, whether you're vegan, because that preparation is going to set you up for success. It's funny because even we were just going through a status update before I joined this call, and the holidays are that kind of precipice for some people where they can kind of fall off the ledge. But we saw so many people that were able to navigate the holidays successfully. And part of it was that in November, we started planting the seed. So how are you going to, if you're going to be going out for Thanksgiving or Christmas, whether you're going to a restaurant or someone else's home, look at the menu.

Daphne Bascom:
And I encourage people to make a decision before they get to the restaurant so that they're less tempted to order the things that we know, you know, the fried broccoli. All the things that we love, but maybe aren't supporting where we are in our fat loss journey. If you're traveling or even if you're going out to a restaurant, I encourage people to bring their protein with them. If they're not certain, they're going to be able to get it. And I'm one of those people that you'll see, you know, I'll have my tofu in my purse or I'll have some pumpkin seeds in my purse. It becomes the way you live. And as long as you are preparing, whether you're calling ahead to the hotel and asking for a refrigerator so that you can go to a grocery store and purchase some healthy snacks when you get to your destination. Looking at the hotel, looking at the restaurant menu so that you can make intentional decisions and then advocating for yourself so that if you order and you want the dressing on the side or you don't want the foods fried, you can speak up and just, you don't necessarily have to say I'm vegan if you're not comfortable with that, but just say “I have some dietary restrictions and can the chef prepare it this way?”

James Hill:
That's so amazing because it fits so much with people that aren't vegans. It's the same thing. You have to plan. We talk about, Daphne, calling ahead at the restaurant or looking at the menus so you're prepared. So these are issues whether you're vegan or non-vegan.

Daphne Bascom:
Exactly.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. They're really lining up. It's just whatever you need to be successful, with the nutritional plan or diet that you've chosen. You've got to be proactive and plan. But you know what you said? I didn't know you could bring tofu in your purse. Can you do that, really?

Daphne Bascom:
I cook it. However you like to prepare it.

Holly Wyatt:
Wow.

Daphne Bascom:
And then put it in a little zip bag. And then when you get to the restaurant, whether it's your side or whether you're putting it on your salad, just whip it out, throw it in.

Holly Wyatt:
Well, and I say that only because so many people talk about we, I definitely believe in having protein and carbohydrate in each meal, especially for people who struggle with satiety and appetite. I do think that helps the biology for a lot of people, not necessarily everybody. A lot of people, though, having protein and carb in every meal and fiber and stuff. And one of the things people struggle sometimes with when they're in the airport or when they're traveling is what is going to be my protein source. And we have a list, but I never thought I really didn't think about putting tofu in my purse. So you're teaching me something here. I'm going to have to try that one out.

James Hill:
See, you've learned something, Holly.

Holly Wyatt:
I always learn stuff, Jim. So I learn stuff every time. Here's what I want to switch to. And before Jim does, I'm going to beat him to it.

James Hill:
Oh, come on.

Holly Wyatt:
Oh, yeah. So I know we just do audio, but we're also on video. And I just want to tell the listeners, you're walking on your walking pad this whole time.

Holly Wyatt:
And so I want to just now start talking about exercise and plant-based diets.

James Hill:
It's about time, Holly.

Holly Wyatt:
I know. I know. So is exercise different for vegans versus omnivores? We hear about recovery and muscle and all of that. So kind of what is your philosophy on that? And if your performance, just all of it, what do you need to do if you're on a plant-based diet for being able to move your body?

Daphne Bascom:
You need to just move. Go back to what Michelle Obama said, just move. So Holly, it's funny you say that because when I became vegan, I actually, my recovery got better. And I know you hear this and people, some people may not believe it, but my arthritis went away. My recovery got better.

Daphne Bascom:
So I saw a pre-screening of the Game Changers at an American College of Lifestyle Medicine meeting. And I was aghast because a lot of the knowledge around plant-based nutrition I had never been familiar with. And so when I heard the science I decided to make the change myself. And I was a physique athlete at the time so I was competing in figure and I was afraid initially that maybe I would lose some of my ability to be competitive but I became more competitive because I was able to fuel my body. I was able to recover better. As I said, the arthritis went away. I think the Game Changers, if anyone listening hasn't seen it, it's a great documentary that exemplifies the fact that, athletes at the highest level, Novak Djokovic is vegan, you can perform at any level, whether you're being a plant-based athlete, but you do need to make sure that you're feeling appropriately. And that's the same as being an omnivore. Yeah.

Holly Wyatt:
So there's some controversy about this, but people have talked about maybe after you work out, there's a window for protein. And I know there's some controversy about that. So we're not going to argue about that. But the idea that maybe you do need to get protein in at some point when you're breaking down your muscle and then you're repairing or building, is that still true? Or how do you go about doing that? Just picking a plant-based protein? Do you follow the same principles there?

Daphne Bascom:
Yes. Again, I think the science is evolving. You definitely see athletes, plant-based or omnivore, carrying their protein shake with them in the gym or sitting in the car right after consuming their protein. I think the anabolic window concept has broadened. And just based on what I'm reading in the literature, it really is, you have that 24-hour window. So your body is primed for nutrition. And what I actually encourage people to do if they're able to is after you train, have a full meal, have a just a regular meal. You need to hydrate. So make sure you're hitting your water goals. But if you can have your breakfast or have your lunch or have your dinner, and that will provide your body with the nutrition it needs to repair and build muscle. You don't necessarily need to do what I think a lot of people saw in the bodybuilding community, where you have to have that one hour window when you're maximally going to optimize your protein intake. You have hours in which to do that. And if you can do it with whole foods, even better than doing it with supplements.

Holly Wyatt:
So I have one more question. I'm asking for a friend. This is just someone else wanted to know this. If you were going to use a protein powder to supplement, I understand whole foods is better, but let's say you're in a situation where you can't eat a meal and you want to get some protein in. What do we look for a plant-based protein powder?

Daphne Bascom:
Asking for a friend, first thing, I would find a company that is third-party tested. So regardless of, and I'm saying this not just for plant-based, although plant-based is more important because of some of the heavy metals that may be found in some of the plant-based protein powders, but whether you are looking for a plant-based protein powder or a whey-based protein powder, find a company you can trust and that their products are third-party tested and hopefully even have a certificate of analysis so you can see what's in it. There's a whole host of plant-based protein powders now, soy, pea, lupini bean. I prefer plant-based protein powders sometimes that have a mix. So maybe it's pea and soy or pea and lupini bean. One of my favorite is Fyta, F-Y-T-A, that has a mixed isolate of protein powders. You want to make sure that your protein powder doesn't have lots of additives in it. If you're looking for 20 grams of protein, you don't want 40 grams of carbohydrates in it too, or 40 grams of added sugars. So looking at the protein-carb-to-fat ratio and making sure if you're supplementing for protein, you want it to be mainly protein, which is why some of the protein bars are candy bars.

Holly Wyatt:
Right, right.

Daphne Bascom:
So looking for high protein from a company that is third-party tested, that doesn't have a lot of additives or fillers, and that your protein-to-carbohydrate ratio is high.

Holly Wyatt:
So you don't think where the protein comes from in terms of the plant source matters?

Daphne Bascom:
No, I don't. And partly, I'm saying that partly because I try and meet people where they are, and I don't want to leave the impression that you have to eat only pea, or you have to eat only soy, or you have to eat only lupini bean. Partly, and I know from my own digestion, there's some protein powders that just make me gassy and bloated, and I don't like them.

Daphne Bascom:
So finding one that works for you, but meets those criteria is the key.

James Hill:
So, Daphne, in our book, we talk about three pillars of weight management. Food is medicine, physical activity is medicine, and the third one is mind is medicine. And we talk about the importance of mind state, both to help people stick with their lifestyle, but also to help them appreciate and love their lifestyle. Holly says all the time, if you're just hanging on by your fingernails, you're not going to stick with it. Is there anything different about vegans versus non-vegans when it comes to mind state?

Daphne Bascom:
Jim, no. That was one thing I loved about your book, is that you focused on mind state. So one of the first element in our plant-powered blueprint is mindset. Because this encompasses a lot of things, whether it's how you feel about your body, whether it's how you feel about your ability to achieve the goals, whether it's your relationship with food, how you think of this as a long-term strategy. If your mindset isn't primed to make you successful, you will not be successful. And helping adjust mind state is as much a part of the plan as helping adjust your nutrition.

Holly Wyatt:
I think that's why we hit it off so well on your podcast is that is such a foundational piece and I love that it's similar regardless of what you're eating. It is that important piece that so many people I think don't spend any time on at least, or consider in the equation. So I love that. I want to kind of go back to what do you think is the biggest myth about vegan diets and weight? Since people are here a lot of times because they want to talk about their weight or they're trying to lose weight. So vegan diets and weight, what's the biggest myth out there?

Daphne Bascom:
I think you touched on one of the biggest myths which is if I go plant-based, I'll automatically lose weight, which is not. It's not true. Again, the same principles of weight management, weight maintenance, apply whether you're vegan or whether you're omnivore. I think another myth is that we've done a lot of greenwashing in terms of how we're communicating products in the market. I think a lot of people feel that if it says plant-based, it's healthier. That is a myth too. There are so many plant-based products that are not healthy. I worry that vegans are going to become as unhealthy as omnivores for different reasons.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, that makes sense. And we have to be careful. I think even on your show, we talked about not that long ago, we had the snack well phenomenon where it was like, oh, as long as you take out the fat, then everything's okay. Well, then if there was just sugar put in, it didn't. It didn't solve the problem. And I think that same thing can happen. You can find plant-based products that have all kinds of things in them that still qualify as plant-based, but aren't necessarily going to help you with weight management or help you with even other aspects of your health.

Daphne Bascom:
Holly, there's one other myth. I don't know if it necessarily applies just to weight loss, but I think some people, I don't want to call it a myth, but feel that if I'm plant-based, I am impervious to chronic disease. So you can be, I know I get the question a lot, “Well, I'm plant-based. Why is my cholesterol still high?” Or “I'm plant-based. Why is my A1C elevated? I'm plant-based. Why do I have hypertension?” Being vegan doesn't make you impervious to chronic disease because your nutrition, I think of our weight as a symptom. The root cause is we are metabolically unhealthy. Your weight gain is a symptom of that. And so you can still be metabolically unhealthy eating fully whole food plant-based if you're not careful.

James Hill:
Cool.

Holly Wyatt:
Well, and that's true. That's true with any diet. I mean, a lot of times what you eat can impact chronic disease. And so the food is medicine concept, the idea that what you're eating can impact all kinds of physiology and can help with blood pressure and diabetes. But it doesn't necessarily do that all the time. I use myself as an example. I eat fairly healthy. I still have high blood pressure. Genetically, I'm going to do that. I think it's complicated. It's in terms of what you're eating, but also you can do a lot with food. And sometimes it's still going to be there.

James Hill:
Food is important, but it's not the only thing.

Holly Wyatt:
Exactly.

James Hill:
All right, Holly, you should hit Daphne with the rapid fire questions now. Daphne, I make Holly do this in case people get upset. They can get upset at her.

Holly Wyatt:
Oh, my goodness. No one gets upset. These are the fun questions. He makes me do it because I'm the one that wants them because I want to have fun. All right. Rapid fire, as quick as you can. One food people think is vegan, weight-loss-friendly, but actually isn't.

Daphne Bascom:
Nuts.

Holly Wyatt:
Nuts. Yes, Jim. Oh, no. Jim loves nuts. I love it. Rapid fire number two. Most underrated plant-based food for weight management.

Daphne Bascom:
I would say your cruciferous vegetables. Broccoli, cauliflower, and partly because they're also very healthy for you.

Holly Wyatt:
Got it.

James Hill:
Good one.

Holly Wyatt:
Number three, biggest mistake new vegans make when trying to lose weight.

Daphne Bascom:
The biggest mistake vegans make when trying to lose weight is using too many processed foods.

Holly Wyatt:
Nice. All right. Number four, one supplement every vegan trying to manage their weight could consider. I know you said you don't require any, but could consider.

Daphne Bascom:
Let me correct that.

Holly Wyatt:
Okay.

Daphne Bascom:
So all vegans should be taking vitamin B12. That is a non-negotiable supplement. Yeah, that one, non-negotiable. When I was thinking supplements, I was thinking of the rows of supplements that we see in GNC or the grocery store where you can pick a jar for anything.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, so B vitamins, a B vitamin, kind of a complex B vitamin?

Daphne Bascom:
Vitamin B12 is a requirement.

Holly Wyatt:
Okay.

Daphne Bascom:
I would say it's also a requirement for whether you're omnivore or vegan as you get older, because our absorption decreases with age. So we frequently have our clients test their vitamin B level, their vitamin D level. Vitamin D is another one that I think is a supplement that most of us, not just vegans, would benefit from taking on a regular basis because we just don't get that pro-hormone. We're not out in the sun like we used to be.

Holly Wyatt:
Exactly. Yeah. A lot of vitamin D deficiency out there just in the population in general. All right. Last rapid fire question. Number five, best advice for someone who's vegan and stuck at a plateau, a weight plateau.

Daphne Bascom:
Best advice would be to document what you're eating for several days and how you're moving. And then to work with someone like Holly or Jim to understand holistically, looking at your nutrition, your movement, your sleep, your stress, because those can also impact your ability to lose weight and keep weight off. So I think you need to take a step back, look at what you're actually doing for a week or so, and then make intentional changes.

James Hill:
Holly, that sounds exactly like what we recommend in our book.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, no, I said we're really fully aligned on so many things.

James Hill:
All right, Daphne, we're going to take some listener questions now. All right, here's the first one. I've been vegan for three years and have gained 20 pounds. I eat healthy plant-based foods. What am I doing wrong?

Daphne Bascom:
That's a good question. And I don't want you to think that you're doing anything wrong. I think it's an opportunity to look at what you're doing all around. Because it's easy for some of those healthy plant-based foods to sneak in, like peanut butter is another one I think that, you know, I joke with my community, I keep my peanut butter in the garage.

Holly Wyatt:
I can't have peanut butter in my house, so I can't even have it in the garage. It can't be anywhere.

Daphne Bascom:
So it may not be that you're doing anything wrong, but let's look at what you're doing right. And then if there's opportunities to fine tune, because it could also be that maybe we need to look at not just how you're feeling, but how you're moving.

Holly Wyatt:
I think this is a good one. I'm always hungry on a vegan diet, even when I'm eating a lot of volume. How can I feel satisfied, have less hunger without eating massive amounts of food?

Daphne Bascom:
I feel that I would want to look at your nutrition and see how much protein you're eating, because I think protein is very satiating and frequently encourage people to eat their protein first. Volume can be great, but if you are hungry, listen to your body, and we need to understand what maybe you're not fueling your body with, or how we're not quieting your ghrelin or your protein YY so that those hunger cues are being activated. I would probably also ask you to see are you hydrating adequately? Because sometimes people confuse hunger and thirst. And then making sure we often use the hunger satiety scale. Because sometimes are you hungry or are you trying to satisfy another emotion.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah.

Daphne Bascom:
And so looking at all three of those to understand why you feel that you're still hungry.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. Good one.

James Hill:
Okay, Holly, it's time for the vulnerability segment. Daphne, have you ever doubted whether vegetarianism was the right choice for you? And if so, how did that conversation with yourself go?

Daphne Bascom:
Jim, I never looked back. I do not doubt that. So I started, I became vegan for health. And then as I went down the rabbit hole and started exploring the impact on our planet and on animals, I realized it was the right choice for me. Because I had not understood our food system very well prior to becoming vegan. But from a health perspective, for myself personally, and from what I see in the people that we coach, it's not just weight loss, but the women who have PCOS who become fertile again. You know, we had a celebration last Monday. People who have been trying to lower their A1c for 10, 15 years, and now they're no longer pre-diabetic. People who are getting off their medications. For me, it is the right choice. This is for me, for health, for animals, and for the environment.

Holly Wyatt:
Wow. All right. My question, my vulnerability question is, you know, I believe we're always learning and I know you believe this too. What has evolved in your way of thinking about being a vegan or maybe what did you get wrong that then you thought of slightly differently? I always say, you know, some things I thought for sure were this was what needed to happen. And then as things progressed, I learned something a little bit different, changed my thoughts. What did you get wrong that maybe now you see differently when it comes to eating vegan?

Daphne Bascom:
Oh, Holly, that's a really good question.

Holly Wyatt:
I know, I know. And maybe it's not wrong. Maybe something that evolved over time, you know, changed slightly.

Daphne Bascom:
I think I have evolved on my perception of, one, our total protein requirements, but it's not specific to being vegan. Earlier on in my career, I'd say I was much higher than I am now, but still high. Maybe a little bit more moderate. I think that after reading, you know, Dr. Greger's books, How Not to Age, How Not to Die, I really, I won't say this is, I changed my mind, but I think I evolved in my understanding of the importance of micronutrients to how we are living in terms of our health span and potentially our longevity. I'm struggling with that one. So that's really a good question.

Holly Wyatt:
I know. That's why I always make sure I get one because I like to ask that one.

Holly Wyatt:
Before, I know Jim's going to do some pie in the plate as we kind of come to the end of this segment, but I want to give you a chance to tell our listeners where they could get in touch with you, tell them a little bit about your podcast. So if they've heard some things and they want to explore further, give them some resources there.

Daphne Bascom:
Thank you. I appreciate that. I am fortunate to run a community on Skool called Thrive on Plants, which is how we gave birth to the Thrive on Plants podcast. It is a community mainly for women, but the podcast is for everyone. And you don't have to be vegan to listen. We talk about topics such as nutrition, movement, just interviewed someone about outdoor hiking because we take a lot of opportunities to encourage a growth mindset and challenge our community to do things that maybe they thought they couldn't do. So if you are interested in learning more about plant-based nutrition, the Thrive on Plants podcast, we also have The Vegan Gym podcast where you can find lots of real-life recipes and menus on how to live life as a vegan.

Daphne Bascom:
You don't have to be a cook. These are really simple recipes. It includes a shopping list. And for those of you that use Cronometer, we also have a lot of our recipes in a recipe cookbook available on the Cronometer app. If you're interested in coaching, if you go to thevegangym.com, we love to help people learn how to be healthy vegans. And it's not all about this. This isn't about weight loss. This isn't about fat loss. This is becoming the healthiest you possible and how we can help you extend your health span.

James Hill:
Love it. Love it. All right, Holly, what we've learned in this segment, we've actually learned a lot. First of all, you're going to have tofu in your purse from here on out, so that's okay.

Holly Wyatt:
Hey, it's an option now for me.

James Hill:
But what we've learned is being a vegan doesn't automatically mean that you're going to manage your weight easy, that you're going to avoid all kinds of chronic diseases. But what we also have learned, it's eminently possible to be a vegan, to manage your weight, and to improve your health. And again, I think there are so many choices available, but just like following any other diet, you have to learn how to make good choices. You can go in the grocery store and find vegan products that are probably contributing to your weight and health and those that may not. So there's a little bit of learning there. But I think it's never been easier to be a vegan. And if that's really what you decide to do, there is no reason you can't achieve a healthy weight and maintain that. Did I get it okay?

Holly Wyatt:
I think you did good.

James Hill:
Daphne, we so appreciate you being on this segment. We've really learned a lot. And I think both Holly and I in some ways are amazed at how similar our approaches are. Maybe we didn't think there would be that much similarity, but as we've talked to you and your podcast and our podcast, I just see we're aligned in so many ways.

Daphne Bascom:
Jim, thank you. Thank you both. I mean, as I shared when we first met, you're my tribe. I've listened to your podcast for some time and followed your work. You have impacted so many people. And I do think we are so aligned. And it's always nice to have like-minded people to bounce ideas off of or to share with. So I can't thank you enough for all you both do and what you've contributed to the body of knowledge for those of us that are coaching because this is something that's hard to navigate. And especially now with the GLP-1s coming out and people trying to understand how do they maintain their weight loss? And what excited me about your book is that, again, we see so many people who lose weight. We see so many people struggle to maintain their weight, and if we could get the maintenance piece right, we would be so much further ahead than just focusing on losing the weight. So thank you both for this opportunity but more importantly if there's anything we can ever do to support you because the messages you're delivering, I think, are even more important than teaching people how to lose weight.

James Hill:
Love it.

Holly Wyatt:
We’re going to invite you back so you're going to be on again. I can already tell.

James Hill:
So listeners send us more questions about being a vegan and weight management and we'll get those together and we'll have Daphne back on in the future.

Holly Wyatt:
Absolutely. All right, Jim. Thanks everybody. And we will see you soon. Bye.

James Hill:
Bye. And that's a wrap for today's episode of Weight Loss And. We hope you enjoy diving into the world of weight loss with us.

Holly Wyatt:
If you want to stay connected and continue exploring the “Ands” of weight loss, be sure to follow our podcast on your favorite platform.

James Hill:
We'd also love to hear from you. Share your thoughts, questions, or topic suggestions by reaching out at weightlossand.com. Your feedback helps us tailor future episodes to your needs.

Holly Wyatt:
And remember, the journey doesn't end here. Keep applying the knowledge and strategies you've learned and embrace the power of the “And” in your own weight loss journey.