From Loving Food to Loving Life with David Page

James Hill:
Welcome to Weight Loss And, where we delve into the world of weight loss. I'm Jim Hill.

Holly Wyatt:
And I'm Holly Wyatt. We're both dedicated to helping you lose weight, keep it off, and live your best life while you're doing it.

James Hill:
Indeed, we now realize successful weight loss combines the science and art of medicine, knowing what to do and why you will do it.

Holly Wyatt:
Yes, the “And” allows us to talk about all the other stuff that makes your journey so much bigger, better, and exciting.

James Hill:
Ready for the “And” factor?

Holly Wyatt:
Let's dive in.

James Hill:
Here we go.

Holly Wyatt:
Today's episode is, I think, going to flip a common weight loss myth that a lot of people talk about. How many times have we heard people say, I want to lose weight, but I just love food too much. I'm a foodie.

James Hill:
Holly, we hear that all the time. And today, we've got a guest with us who proves that you don't have to choose between the two.

Holly Wyatt:
Our guest today is David Page. He's an Emmy-winning journalist and the creator of Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives, and someone who has spent a career celebrating great food. And despite that, or I would say maybe because of it, he's lost more than 80 pounds without giving up the joy of eating.

James Hill:
Yeah, Holly, I love the show, Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives. That's a fabulous show. My kids love it and watch it. David has switched gears a little bit, and he's now the host of the podcast Culinary Characters Unlocked. And he brings a refreshing, honest, real-world perspective to the conversations around food, health, and weight. David, welcome to the show.

David Page:
Thank you. That was quite an introduction. There's very little chance I can live up to it.

James Hill:
Okay, let's start with the big question here. How do you lose over 80 pounds with giving up the food you love? That sounds impossible to most people.

David Page:
I was scared into it. I had a diabetes scare. Um, I fought my weight my entire life and I've ballooned. I've gone up and down. But a couple of years ago, my doctor literally threw her hands up and said, “I give up.” My A1C was over eight. My glucose level was 256. And she said, yeah, I haven't been listening to anything I've been saying, go see an endocrinologist.

Now, parenthetically, I think there's an issue with the medical community not really explaining diabetes to people who are afflicted by it. Because I'd never gotten a straight answer from her as to what I should or shouldn't eat and what the science of diabetes was. But I was motivated. I went to an endocrinologist who specialized in diabetes. And she sent me to a nutritionist who specialized in diabetes. And that's what began my weight loss journey this time. And full disclosure, look, I didn't do this without medical help. I was put on Ozempic for control of my diabetes, and it had the effect of reducing my appetite for gross amounts of food. The problem is, like so many people, I wasn't eating because I was hungry. I was eating for all of those 800 other reasons that people eat. I had a bad day. I'm emotional about something. I'm bored. The TV show ain't doing it for me, but there's that pint of Rocky Road. So, I had to reevaluate when I went to food and how I used food. But back to your original question, which is how can you do this?

Food to be good does not have to be ridiculously caloric. It can be. I mean, one of the reasons that that steak you get at the steakhouse is better than the steak you make at home, and the chef won't tell you this, but it's absolutely soaked in butter and full of salt. So, yeah, there are some compromises that you need to make. But for me, it's become an issue of taking a look at classic recipes, figuring out if there's a way to produce that dish for me without the use of all sorts of additional fat. And by the way, fat is not, by definition, bad. I made a loveliness was salad last night, and I did not not use olive oil. I used a tablespoon of it in my dressing, not half of the bottle. But for me, it's been an issue of how to incorporate desirable flavors into foods that, by definition, are not tremendously high in fat to start with. But there are some places that I don't follow the traditional guidance on how you shave calories. For example, there is nothing less attractive taste-wise than a chicken breast.

Traditionally, historically, the prized part of the chicken has always been dark meat because fat is flavor. There are times I'll use a chicken breast because I'm going to enhance the dish heavily with, let's say, an Indian tikka masala sauce, which is 60 calories for two tablespoons and yet adds a lot of flavor. There are other dishes for which I will go for that chicken thigh. It's a matter of doing the math and deciding the flavor I'm going to get out of this for 500 calories is significantly better than the flavor I'd get out of that breast for 200 calories. Make your choice. In the end of the day, look, I subscribe to the belief, and I know from time to time there are studies and reports that supposedly discredit it, but I stick to the belief that it's calories in, calories out. And that I can, in fact, make a choice to have that thing that I particularly like. I'm just going to have to pay for it on the other end.

Holly Wyatt:
So many things to unpack in what you just said. I'm like, I've got them all written down.

James Hill:
He had so many issues, Holly.

David Page:
Okay. I'll just sit here. You guys go to work.

Holly Wyatt:
But let's back up for a minute. Let's set the stage a little bit. So, you've been successful in this weight loss attempt and you talked about your diabetes, but had you tried to lose weight before?

David Page:
Oh, I'd been a yo-yo dieter my whole life. Again, beliefs that are occasionally argued about and supposedly discredited. I happen to believe there's a genetic component that points people in the direction of becoming overweight. I come from generations of people who are overweight or have been. And so I believe that's part of it. I also believe that prior to getting scared to death over diabetes, I have no self-control. I've had to develop it. But I'm an excess lover. I mean, the worst advice I ever got from a doctor was, well, you can enjoy chocolate ice cream, just stop at one scoop.

James Hill:
Yeah.

David Page:
I said to the doctor, I said, you know what? But you've never had a weight problem, and it's garbage for you to give that kind of advice to someone who has a weight problem because you don't know.

Holly Wyatt:
They have no insight because they haven't felt that way.

David Page:
But I'll tell you, I do pander to my awareness of my tendencies. I would rather, and look, I know it's not the healthiest product in the world, but there's a fake ice cream out there. Halo. And I'm sure it's full of stuff that if I were younger than 70 and had more than 20 or 30 years left, I'd care about. But I would rather eat a pint of Halo than a scoop of good chocolate chip ice cream. That is a qualitative decision I'm making.

James Hill:
That's a trade-off you made.

David Page:
I made that trade-off.

James Hill:
Yeah.

David Page:
Because if I take that 330 calories of caramel, fake caramel, or the 290 for vanilla, it will satisfy my desire to sit on the couch watching something on Netflix and feel like I'm being indulgent. Now, there are other times when, I mean, if I'm having a phenomenal Italian meal and I've been really good and eaten the Branzino and stayed away from the higher calorie part of the entree, then I may allow myself a really terrific single scoop of gelato. That is a situation in which I wish to savor the flavor, texture and wonderfulness of the food because now I'm enjoying it for the quality of the food. That pint of Halo, I'm just indulging my desire to feel like a pig.

Holly Wyatt:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I believe, and you're a volume eater. I'm a volume eater too. And there's science behind that. It's not just about you like to eat a lot of food. There's science behind some of us. the satiety signals require a higher volume. And so for me, I'm right with you. I will eat the whole pint of Halo so there's always science and behavior going together.

David Page:
What's interesting about that is the Ozempic does its job. I no longer eat those short ribs until I can't get up from the table. I'll eat a short rib or two terrific short ribs because I make the best short ribs on earth. I simmer those babies sick down. Man, they're good. So I've managed the physical desire to fill my stomach to excess has been medically controlled. Now what's left is my emotional issues.

James Hill:
Interesting.

David Page:
Yeah.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah.

James Hill:
But you notice, Holly, he also said it's about calories in and calories out. And people want to believe there's something magical that's not about that, but at the end of the day, it is. Everything we've learned, it is calories in and calories out. And one of the other things you talked about is you can take really good tasting food. You can make it a little bit healthier without losing taste. You don't have to make it taste like card bread. You can use half a stick of butter instead of a full stick of butter. There are some things you can do.

David Page:
Look, part of it goes back to something I've been preaching for a very long time, completely irrespective of weight issues, which is eat good food, make good food. A good roast chicken is a terrific meal if you take the time, and it doesn't take much time, it takes 15 minutes, to get the chicken, put reasonable salt and pepper on it, garlic if you want, put it in a pan, add some stock so it doesn't dry out, and then put it in the oven. That's a nice piece of meat. I would rather, if I'm going to indulge on beef, I buy my beef from a butcher. I believe in butchers. I want to go see my guy and say, what do you got this week? What's good? I'm thinking about doing this. I'm thinking about doing that. I'd rather, if I'm going to indulge on a piece of red meat, then I want it to be good. I want to enjoy the taste and the flavor of that piece of red meat. And no, I'm not eating a 12 ounce or a 16 ounce ribeye anymore. I'm eating eight ounces, but I'm enjoying it. But the fact of the matter is, so much of what gets done to food that adds calories is to add flavor to a second-rate ingredient in the first place.

James Hill:
Interesting point.

David Page:
If you make good food to start with, now that's half of the battle. And it doesn't have to be the fatty cut. I mean, much of traditional ethnic or regional cooking has always been built around the least desirable cuts because those were the foods the poor people ate. So in many cases, it was, for example, the hanger steak didn't have the fat content that a sirloin did. Now you get into cooking technique. I mean, braising is your friend. You take any protein, you braise it low and slow with salt, pepper, garlic, and some crushed tomatoes. Now you're talking, which by the way, is all that at their essence, short ribs are. I mean, yeah, you can put in good wine if you want, but it's not necessary.

Holly Wyatt:
I love these tips about food. I want to take a step back though, because I think before we even get to it, and I love all this practical stuff, how do you take the food and make it have less calories, but still they'll have the flavor and you're the perfect person to talk about this. But I want to talk about your mind state. And we believe that, yes, that part is not necessarily what gets you to lose the weight, but is the critical part for you keeping it off, whether you stay on the medications forever or whether you don't. You have the option of staying on medications forever. So, did you notice a change in your mindset that was critical for your success this time?

David Page:
Well, it was a change in my behavior at a certain point, which is I began without counting calories. My nutritionist suggested to me a particular course of action, which was two meals a day. You could call the morning intermittent fasting if you want. A lunch and a dinner with one snack in between. He recommended Enlightened ice cream bars as a snack, about 140 calories. The ones with dark chocolate on the outside that mimic the old good humor bar, you know, dark chocolate is considered okay for diabetics. Um, so for the first 50 pounds or so, I wasn't counting calories. I mean, it happened naturally based on my reduction in intake, but at a certain point, it got to the point where for me to continue losing and now even more importantly for me to maintain, now I'm back to counting calories because now it's what choices am I going to make? I've modified my overall input significantly.

But now we're down to the point where since the smorgasbord, if you will, of available foods has broadened somewhat now that my numbers are better, my doctor and my nutritionist have recommended that I allow myself to eat some things that would not have been allowable early on, like breads and even pasta, as long as I'm monitoring my blood sugar and I wear a monitor. But now I count calories. If it goes in, I write it down. Which some people would find to be just annoying as heck. But for me, it's part of my life. I'm weighing, I'm counting, that's fine.

James Hill:
David, are you still taking the GLP-1 medications?

David Page:
I am.

James Hill:
A lot of people who are taking those report food's not any fun anymore. I don't enjoy it.

David Page:
I don't have that.

James Hill:
You actually do enjoy food.

David Page:
I still love food. I absolutely adore food. I've had none of the negative side effects that have been reported for other people. So, I consider myself very lucky. But also remember I went on the meds so I wouldn't die, you know? So if you're going to evaluate, am I worried about side effects? Am I worried about long-term use? It's one thing, I guess, to approach it cosmetically. Now, all desire to lose weight is not cosmetic. There are tremendous health benefits associated. I feel great for the first time in years, physically. And by the way, it's a question of what works for you. Everybody, my doctor, me, we're all really happy where I am. If you looked at the charts, some doctor just seeing me fresh out of the gate would tell me to lose 20 pounds. I'm 5'8". I'm at around 175. The chart says I should be a 155. Well, to hell with it. Pardon me. To heck with that, you know. I'm comfortable here. Frankly, I look good here. And after a lifetime of fighting this, this works for me.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. So you're planning on staying on the medications long term?

David Page:
Yeah. I don't see a downside to it. There has been some discussion with my doctor of do we want to tinker with the meds? But I like what I'm eating. I like how I feel. I like my numbers. I mean, 5.3 is a pretty good A1C. So I just don't have a concern about being on the medication. And other people would. There are people who are going to tell you, I don't want stuff in my body. I don't need my body. I'm okay with it. Personal choice.

James Hill:
That's what we tell people. If the medication is working for you, you feel good, there's no reason to stop it. But, again, you're right. Everybody is different. Some people have trouble tolerating the side effects. Some people don't like the idea of taking meds. It's not one size fits all. But I do like, Holly, the fact you can be on the meds and still enjoy food. That's an important message.

Holly Wyatt:
Because some people say that joy of food goes away.

David Page:
I have not lost that at all. In fact, to be candid, because so much of my interest in food is psychological, the opportunity to eat something that tastes good makes me happy.

James Hill:
One of the things that we always hear from people is, yeah, I get started on weight loss. Everything's good. I have trouble staying motivated over the long term. Where are your sources of motivation, David?

David Page:
Impending death.

James Hill:
That's a big one.

David Page:
I finally got scared enough to take it seriously. And when I say take it seriously, look, I've obviously made many serious efforts at weight loss over the years, but it wasn't until, look, when your doctor throws her hands up and says, I'm done with you, it will make you think. Now, there are contributing factors. I really like the way I feel. I really like the way I look.

Holly Wyatt:
That's what I was going to say. I know for a lot of people, a health scare starts them down this path. But for most people to continue down this path, they need to turn around and do exactly what I think you're about to say, figure out what feels good, not what am I afraid of? What do I want to prevent? Because we don't want to live our life like that, right?

David Page:
You're absolutely right. I feel great. It's been a long time since I felt physically great and I like feeling great. That has become more important to me, I guess, than eating a bag of potato chips. I'd like some potato chips, but then again, I know myself very well. You don't stop at two potato chips. So that's not something that I often allow back. Now, look, life is real. And one of the most important things that my endocrinologist said to me was you can cheat sometimes. I fall off the wagon like everybody else. On the occasion that I fall off the wagon, it's by 500 calories, not by six pints of Rocky Road. Because I've managed to narrow things down into a narrower range, how's that for terrible grammar? Because I've managed to push things into a narrower spectrum, I don't wake up the next day feeling truly horrible. Now, I will say I've also given up alcohol for caloric reasons and, not having the occasional hangover doesn't hurt either.

James Hill:
Holly, oftentimes we hear people, it's almost as if food is the enemy. People feel like food's the enemy of health. And I think David is giving us a different message here, that food doesn't have to be the enemy, but you have to use your big cortex to make decisions about what you eat. But you don't have to give up enjoyment of food to experience good health.

David Page:
Food is not the enemy. One of the things that I think is actually good if you're food motivated is this is an opportunity to get creative. Look, I'm a New York Jew. I decided I wanted a New York Jewish deli dinner. And I managed to put it together in a way that didn't break any kind of bank. First of all, smoked salmon, Lox, is very low in calories. So, I built most of it around that. Whitefish salad, which I don't think you're eating a lot of down in Birmingham.

James Hill:
No, definitely not.

David Page:
But that is such a typical Jewish deli item. That's relatively high in calories. So I was only going to have 56 grams of that. I was going to have some cream cheese and I was going to have a… there's a particular kind of bagel that while it wouldn't pass muster at Katz's deli, is baked for those of us with diabetes. And I made my own chopped liver again. I know it's not an item you're going to eat a lot of in Birmingham. But I made it without all the chicken fat. I used a little olive oil. My wife and I had a terrific deli app…well, not deli, technically, the term is appetizing, but a terrific traditional appetizing meal without causing me any caloric pain. And it was damn good.

Holly Wyatt:
So you've learned a lot about food. He's learned. He really knows how to do this.

James Hill:
That's what I was going to say. He's developed the skills to manage his weight, to make these kinds of decisions. And part of it, I think, is I'm interested because your background in sort of food and enjoying food, I think can be a help in you understanding those skills that it takes to manage your weight.

David Page:
I think it's a great help. Look, you hear people who have not traditionally had a weight problem. I got a friend, Bill, who for years, I think had a tapeworm. We'd go out to dinner. I'd have one steak and he'd have two steaks and he was skinny and I was fat. Well, he's gotten older and now he's starting to deal with weight. And he doesn't know anything about the science behind. There's so many. Okay, just stop eating bread. That'll do it.

James Hill:
Oh, yeah.

David Page:
It's volume. It's amount. It's the kind of food. It's the calorie count. I actually come to this after years of fighting my weight. I brought a knowledge of calorie counts with me. And as a person whose career turned into chronicling food, I'm probably better positioned than most to understand food.

James Hill:
Yes.

David Page:
But there are cookbooks. There are YouTube videos. There's all sorts of stuff available to anyone who wants to know better. I mean, look, diabetes, I didn't know anything. Yes, you can have dark chocolate. It's better than light. You can have strawberries because the high fiber content combats a conversion to sugar. That's better than having a peach. None of that kind of information was in my arsenal until I had to get serious about my diabetes. And I hold it against my GP that...

James Hill:
Well, a lot of times the physicians don't understand it. They aren't trained.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah.

David Page:
You know, I told her that I had oatmeal for breakfast and she beat me up. Well, it's not the worst thing in the world. Frankly, I think the whole area of diabetes, and mine is type 2, it was produced by being overweight. You guys are doctors. You can make the definition better than I can, but I would say the country's facing a diabetes crisis.

James Hill:
Absolutely.

David Page:
People don't know anything about not just what causes this, but how to combat it.

Holly Wyatt:
I'm going to push back just a little bit. I know what maybe some of our listeners are thinking. So it sounds like you came in with a lot of knowledge already about food. You had this motivating diagnosis and you got put on a medication that helps. What if they're sitting here, they're kind of like you were before all this happened and you even said you were kind of a yo-yo dieter, hadn't been necessarily, it sounds like as successful at losing weight and at least keeping it off. And maybe they don't have the diagnosis of type 2 diabetes. Maybe they are not eligible for a GLP-1 medication for some reason. What advice are you going to give them? How can they do this? This is your situation before this happened. That's where they're sitting.

David Page:
I'm not sure I'm the best person to give that advice because I failed.

Holly Wyatt:
But do you have any insight from your experience?

David Page:
Yeah. The only insight I can provide is you've got to decide how important it is to feel better. I'm not talking about health. I'm not talking about the doctor saying there's a diagnosis here and your blood pressure's up. Because let's face it, most of the stuff that being overweight hits you with seems as if it is medically treatable long before you get to Ozempic. You got high blood pressure, take this. You got high cholesterol, take that. So the fear factor for all of the talk about heart disease, people don't buy it. If they did, McDonald's would be out of business. So that scare doesn't work. I think the only reasonable advice can be you'll feel a hell of a lot better. Now, that's going to work for some people. It's not going to work for a lot of people. I mean, the fact is this is an intractable problem.

Holly Wyatt:
Well, it's diving into what feel better means to them. We work with mind state a lot and motivation really starts before I talk about what they could choose to eat.

David Page:
You know, I'm really happy not to have embarrassingly ask the flight attendant for a seatbelt extender anymore. I'm real happy when, I mean, we're booking, we're going to go to Italy to attend a friend's wedding, and I don't want to spend money on business class. And for the first time in years, I'm going to be comfortable in a coach seat. Those are tangible improvements in one's life. But I can't tell, just like my doctor shouldn't have tried to tell me to have one scoop of ice cream, I don't think any of us are in a position to tell someone else this modification of your behavior will make you happy. All we can do is say to them, can you think of a modification in your behavior that will make you happy? Can you think of anything that losing weight or getting smaller or not huffing and puffing when you walk up the steps or whatever it is, can you think of an outcome that would improve your life that we could work backwards to and address the root cause of? But as someone who's fought this battle for years and frankly, only succeeded with the help of medication, I think it's harder than almost anything else. I mean, look, this is an addiction. I'm a big fan of Bill Maher, the comedian, but I just, I throw my shoes at the screen because Bill Maher, an intrinsically thin person, has contempt on his TV show for anyone who is overweight. And he sees anyone who's overweight as a fat pig, absolutely immorally bereft of self-control. And that's not the case. I loved alcohol for years. I didn't have a problem stopping it. It just didn't bother me at all. Stopping certain food items over the years was impossible. So, anyone who tries to make value judgments or wrap them in recommendations to other people is pushing a boulder uphill.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, I think they don't have insight.

David Page:
Well, they don't have empathy because they haven't been there.

Holly Wyatt:
Well, I don't even know that it's empathy as much as insight. They don't know what it feels like to think about food often. They don't know what it feels like to not be satisfied until you have a certain volume. Their body works differently. And so when they eat a single scoop of ice cream, they're satisfied. So they don't understand because they haven't experienced it, what that feels like. The new medications have given people who do feel that way a new insight. You know, in the past when I've been on a medication for not these newer ones, but in the past when I've been on a medication, it really changed the way I thought about it. Suddenly, I understood how my ex-husband didn't get me, didn't understand why I struggled because he feels the way I felt on this medication. So, I think it's about insight and awareness. And I always say it would be great to have a pill, I'm joking about this, that we could give some of the intrinsically thin, which is, I think the word you used, I like, intrinsically thin individuals to feel what it feels like to think about food 24-7.

David Page:
I want them all to gain 50 pounds.

James Hill:
Oh, Holly, though, one of the things I love is he talked about happiness. David talked about happiness and we do that a lot, David, because at the end of the day, it's not reaching a number on the scale. It's reaching a lifestyle that brings you happiness and satisfaction. And for example, you can take the drugs and you still feel that way. Others don't. Others take the meds, they reach the number, but they don't feel good. This is why you have to have a solution that's individualized, that fits the person. And it's not a number on the scale. It really is happiness that we're after.

David Page:
And I got to tell you, until I found that endocrinologist who, I mean, yes, she gave me medical advice, but she was in some respects a therapist in discussing my relationship to food. In so many ways, so many cultures reflect love through food.

James Hill:
Yep, absolutely.

David Page:
So if you want to unpack why you have the connection to food that you have, you can go back many generations. And some of it, I think, over eons has become genetically based as well.

James Hill:
Yep.

David Page:
Beyond the propensity to be overweight. But no, it's about feeling good. And that's also a personal, as I said, technically, I should lose 20 more pounds, but I ain't gonna. I'm real happy where I am. And my doctor says that's great. And there you go.

James Hill:
It's about reaching a weight that makes you happy. Health is part of that, but only a part of it. I have to ask, though, Holly knows this. I have to ask, David, what about your exercise? Have you started exercising?

David Page:
Well, yeah, but I made a very specific choice about exercise. Number one, I have chosen to ignore the guidance for cardio because I just hate cardio.

James Hill:
Okay.

David Page:
And I've reached 70 and my cardiologist says, I don't have any plaque and I get a stress test once a year and I just hate cardio. So aside from walking my dog, which is not heavy cardio activity, I've made a choice that I ain't going to do that. But I do believe that I need some kind of exercise. So I've designed for myself a relatively easy weightlifting routine that I go through every three days between them, in my house. It's quick. It's a 30-minute routine. It's not particularly heavy weights. But I get a little huffing and puffing. And I have made the personal choice that at the age of 70, yes, I'm exercising, but only to this level, I'm not going to enter an Ironman competition.

James Hill:
Yep. The resistance training will help maintain your muscle mass, which is important as you age as well.

David Page:
Yeah. No, I'm doing weights and I'm feeling good, you know.

James Hill:
So, Holly, I have one more question I want to ask David that is a little bit different. You, on your new podcast, you were telling us before we started that you talk to a lot of food people, chefs, et cetera. Are you finding chefs that are trying to bridge this gap between healthy food and good tasting food? And if so, how are they doing that?

David Page:
Well, they're not defining it that way. They're defining it as trying to get people to eat good food, which goes back to the part of the discussion we had earlier where I talked about cooking a roast chicken, by definition, if you take the too much butter out of it. Chefs who care about quality cuisine, care about getting you to eat good product, well-sourced product, and, yes, there's an increase in trying to get us interested in something that isn't the traditional big hunk of protein surrounded by a handful of vegetables. Dan Barber, who is on the Time 100 list of the most influential people, he is pretty much at the forefront of trying to redefine American eating in what I think we would consider a healthier way, but which he sees as a more sustainable way. His most recent book is called The Third Plate, in which he defines the ideal plate as a small portion of protein with a larger portion of vegetables around it. Now, that's not just eat veggies. I mean, Eleven Madison Park, that temple of gastronomy in New York that has held three Michelin stars forever, just announced that they're doing away with their vaunted all-vegan menu because they're bleeding money. But I do believe that there is some correlation between chefs increasingly trying to use local well-sourced product prepared relatively simply. That makes it easier for those of us who are watching our health and our weight. It makes it a heck of a lot easier for us to eat at their restaurants.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. So, Jim, what time is it?

James Hill:
It's time for listener questions, Holly.

Holly Wyatt:
Yes. We have several people wanting to get some answers. We've covered a little bit, so let's do rapid fire, meaning kind of the first thing that comes to your head for advice or an answer to the question for this part. So the first… I'll start, Jim, that's okay?

James Hill:
Okay.

Holly Wyatt:
All right. This one's Jenny. She's 42 years old. She says she loves to cook and she loves food. It's part of her identity. She's asking, how do I even start a weight loss journey without giving that up?

David Page:
Determine what the four things are you love the most. And then make it a project to figure out how to make those in a way that isn't going to kill you. Make it a project. You like fried chicken? Great. You're going to go online. You're going to get some cookbooks. And you're going to figure out what the healthiest, lowest calorie way to make good tasting fried chicken is. And by the way, I haven't explored the fried chicken conundrum. I would suppose that it probably involves an air fryer.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, air fryer maybe. But I love this. This is just little quick, good advice. This works for anybody, even if they're not a chef or someone who loves to cook. Take the four meals or four foods that you enjoy the most and make it your mission. Do some research. Figure out how to make them healthier without sacrificing all the flavor.

James Hill:
Great, great advice. All right, here's one from Angela, who's 38. How do you deal with food guilt? I always feel like I've failed if I eat something off plan.

David Page:
This is hard. You've got to convince yourself that tomorrow's another day because it's a trap if you spend all your time thinking about yesterday. However, there is one thing I do when I stray. I get up the next day and I say, “Today's not a 2,000 calorie day. Today's a 1,500 calorie day.” And I set myself a doable goal to bounce back.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah. Do you try to learn from what happened the day before? That's one of the things we talk about. I never say, don't feel bad about it. No, it doesn't do you any good to have regret. But you are, in a sense, coming back and adjusting your next day. So sometimes I say, okay, what did you learn from that, how might you incorporate that learning moving forward? It turns something that could feel negative into something that actually feels empowering.

David Page:
And allow me to push back and say that I don't think is particularly realistic to the mindset of, in my case, why I would have strayed. I don't have to learn that I like potato chips and that if there's a bag open in front of me and it's late and I just, I put my hand in, I ain't going to stop at one. So, no, I think.

Holly Wyatt:
But you could learn not to put the bag of potato chips by your bed, for instance, something like that.

David Page:
Yeah. I think so much of this becomes a truism about stuff we already know. I know why I strayed. To me, it's like a boxer who got knocked down in the third, get up and try to win the fight.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah but I want to push back. I said don't keep repeating the same thing if you can learn something from it, you know, let me go in there and hit me again. What is, you know, definition of insanity doing it over and over and over again.

David Page:
Well, then stop buying the potato chips.

Holly Wyatt:
Hey, one of my thing, I don't go down the potato chip aisle. Then the potato chips don't end up in my cart and I only eat them at, so, yeah, absolutely. All right, Jim, what's next.

James Hill:
You want to do vulnerability segment?

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, let's move to that.

James Hill:
Okay, you go first.

Holly Wyatt:
All right. Was there a moment where you almost gave up? You know, a moment when you thought, I'm not going to be able to do this or felt maybe it wasn't going to work for you?

David Page:
Not this time. In years of yo-yo dieting, there have been plenty of times when I said, to heck with it. But this time, the fear factor motivated me at first, and then the “Hey, I feel good” factor took over.

Holly Wyatt:
Nice.

James Hill:
I suspect the meds helped too, that knowing that they were there helping you, really.

David Page:
Yeah. And beyond the meds, knowing that I had a couple of professionals I could trust and I could call. You know, I remember one particular call. I emailed or called my nutritionist and said, “I'm confused. Do I want cauliflower crust pizza?” And his answer was, “As a treat, yeah, but it ain't going to help with your diabetes.”

James Hill:
Okay, one more. David, was there a time you surprised yourself, either with how you handled a challenge or with how much joy you found in a change that you didn't expect?

David Page:
Oh, I got to say no.

James Hill:
Okay.

David Page:
I did this for so many years, and I'm pretty analytical. I guess the only surprise was how quickly and effectively my initial regimen of Ozempic and structured eating worked. I was probably pretty pessimistic about that having any impact. And when it kicked in, that was a very significant moment for me, because that's when I said I could do this.

James Hill:
Wow. All right, Holly, let me sum up what we've learned. A lot of good stuff in this episode. But the one thing that comes through over and over is it is possible to maintain a weight loss and still enjoy food. David did it. He had some help. He talked about the medications helped, the nutritionists. And we really recommend people work with a nutritionist, a registered dietitian. He had it sounded like an enlightened endocrinologist that helped, but he has shown that it is possible to achieve a weight that brings him satisfaction, a life that brings him satisfaction, and he has not given up his enjoyment of food. He still enjoys food.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah, and I love the practical tip. Take the four meals that you enjoy the most, that bring you the most joy, that maybe you identify with, maybe the culturally, maybe your family, whatever, and figure out, make that a kind of a project to make those healthier. That I think is a great tip for our audience.

David Page:
Hey, that chopped Tirana bagel was terrific.

James Hill:
Well, David, thank you so much for sharing your journey. It's powerful, relatable, and proof that weight loss doesn't mean you have to give up what you love.

David Page:
Well, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Holly Wyatt:
Yeah.

James Hill:
We'll see you next time on Weight Loss And.

Holly Wyatt:
Bye, everybody.

James Hill:
And that's a wrap for today's episode of Weight Loss And. We hope you enjoy diving into the world of weight loss with us.

Holly Wyatt:
If you want to stay connected and continue exploring the “Ands” of weight loss, be sure to follow our podcast on your favorite platform.

James Hill:
We'd also love to hear from you. Share your thoughts, questions, or topic suggestions by reaching out at weightlossand.com. Your feedback helps us tailor future episodes to your needs.

Holly Wyatt:
And remember, the journey doesn't end here. Keep applying the knowledge and strategies you've learned and embrace the power of the “And” in your own weight loss journey.